Shownotes:
How can we ReadMore, write more, and share more? Writer, editor, podcaster, and reader, Marva Hinton is always honoring people and their stories! Whether she is editing for Edutopia or hosting her podcast ReadMore, she asks the questions that bring us to a deeper understanding of the world around us.
About Our Guest:
Marva Hinton is a freelance journalist and a contributing editor for Edutopia. She also hosts the ReadMore Podcast, an interview show that primarily features writers of colors. As a freelance journalist, she tends to cover issues regarding marginalized communities, particularly in education. She has a degree in journalism from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and an MFA in creative writing from Antioch University Los Angeles. She’s a big sports fan. She also loves cooking shows and game shows. She lives in South Florida with her husband, their two kids, and their beloved geriatric cat.
Website: readmorepodcast.com
Twitter: @MarvaAHinton
Instagram: @marvaahinton
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Twitter - @LainieRowell
Instagram - @LainieRowell
Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! Purchase here!
You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount
Transcript:
Lainie Rowell
Welcome to the Evolving with Gratitude Podcast. I'm your host, Lainie Rowell and I'm thankful you're here. Let's talk about ways to bring gratitude into our learning communities to nurture relationships, improve well being, and activate learning.
Lainie Rowell: Friends, this is someone who I have actually known for years ... we're approaching years, no, I think it's been years. Two years. We'll say. Two years.
Marva Hinton: I think that's right. Yes.
Lainie Rowell: And the first time I have spoken live to her is right now. And I am so excited to welcome Marva Hinton. Marva. Thank you for being here.
Marva Hinton: Oh, thank you for having me, Lainie. I'm so excited to be here with you.
Lainie Rowell: I cannot wait to tell people how we know each other, and I really wanna spend a lot of time digging into who you are cause you're so fascinating to me. It's no mystery. I tell people all the time, my guests are the people that I wanna connect with so I wanna talk to you and I know people wanna hear you, so this is very exciting for me. Okay, so here comes the intro the little bio, and then I'd love for you to fill in the blanks. So Marva Hinton is a freelance journalist and a contributing editor for Edutopia.
Hint: that's how we know each other. She also hosts the ReadMore podcast and interview show that primarily features writers of color. I am a listener of that podcast, and I just wanna really quickly say, you are a very thoughtful and caring host.
The way you honor your guests is aspirational for me. I hear you, and I want to be like that because you, you're, you're getting their stories out and you're also asking these really carefully crafted questions. So I'm a listener. I'm a fan. I just adore you. Marva, what did I not get to say about you that you want people to know?
Marva Hinton: Okay. What do I want people to know? Well, we could talk a little bit about my background. You talked about how you love the podcast and I so appreciate you listening and that means so much coming from you. You are a wonderful podcaster and you are so kind when you interview people and Sort of what stood out to me when I first met you, because as you mentioned, I'm a contributing editor with Edutopia, and you've written for Edutopia many times and I edited your work many times, is that you are always just so kind and open, like during the collaborative process, which really what writing is, and I, it just stood out to me like every little thing you're just, oh, thank you for that.
And I just, it really took me aback because. The way you did that, it just makes it stand out and it's such a lovely process working with you. You are a wonderful writer and a wonderful podcaster. My experience in podcasting probably comes from when I used to work in radio for many, many years. I worked in radio news and I'm used to talking to people like that in a broadcasting format and the most important thing I've learned is listening. Because when you're new at that, like when I first started out, you know, you have your list of questions and we're just gonna go through my list of questions and you miss things because while they're talking, you're looking at your next question and I have to get this out.
And they might have said, . Just for an example, today I interviewed a woman who mentioned that she was in a graduate program in a particular city and she ended up leaving because there was a serial killer in that city and she started feeling uncomfortable. Now this is not what we were talking about.
And I just had to stop. I'm sorry. Not my next question, but I'm sorry. There was a serial killer there and we got this long talk about that, and it was just, So much comes from listening. And I, I feel like that's where I picked that up. I am the child of an educator. My mom was a teacher, and I think that's why I have such a heart for teachers.
I had two of my aunts were also educators, and so I grew up around them and hearing that kind of talk and I even for myself, I knew I wanted to be a journalist, but my very first job out of college after two years I was working in radio. It was actually a TV radio. after two years they said, and we don't wanna be in the radio business anymore.
All of you guys can go. So we were all laid off and it took me a while to find another job. My mom was like, oh, you should apply to be a substitute. I have tried that, that didn't work. I, I found a job listing at a private school. They were looking for someone. It was like pre-K up to eighth grade.
They're looking for someone. I applied, did the interview. I got the job, and I worked there actually for nine months. And it was a very rewarding experience. You know, they were asking me, would you like to go back to school so you can be a full teacher? Because I was actually a paraprofessional and I said, you know, I, I don't, I don't think so.
I thought about it for a while, but I said, that's not really, I don't feel like that's my calling. But it gave me such an appreciation and the kids are wonderful and I think about them often now, like, oh, they would be so old now. I wonder what they're doing. .
Lainie Rowell: I know I have kids on Facebook that I taught second grade and they're getting married and they're like, graduating law school.
Marva Hinton: Oh my goodness.
Lainie Rowell: I'm not trying to take credit for the law school thing. It was just the first one that came to my mind. So there's so much. , I'm like trying to process through all this. This is, this for me is the hardest part about being a podcast host is cause I am listening and I'm so present and I wanna have this conversation with you.
I also have to a little bit think about like where we're gonna go next, which isn't the hardest part for me because...
Marva Hinton: I understand. It is not easy.
Lainie Rowell: ...I wanna talk about all these things. So first of all, I wanna say I would like Edutopia to actually list the editor on the article.
Marva Hinton: Very few publications that do that, the only one that comes to mind right now is Bloomberg. They do that.
Lainie Rowell: I think it's should be a thing.
Marva Hinton: You know, I don't mind being in the background though. I'm happy to be the person in the background and let the writer shine. Even in doing my job, like at the end of the day, I want the writer to feel like this is still my work.
It's just been polished up a little bit because I don't wanna go in and into where I'm doing so much that it becomes my article. It's about taking a step back and letting the other person shine.
Lainie Rowell: I think that's a harder thing to do. So that's why I love you so much. And so a little behind the scenes, by the way I have been so blessed to have a number of Edutopia articles published over the last couple years, but they don't all get published.
I'm gonna reveal, like I I do get declined. Some people think they all get published. They do not. But I will say I CC you on every pitch because that's my way of, like, this has worked so far. Now I'm revealing this, and maybe next time it won't work out this way. But that's my way of being like, I want Marva to be the editor on this.
If you accept it, please make sure I get to work with Marva. So I don't know if that's actually been working or if I've just been incredibly lucky, blessed, whatever you wanna say. But I'm gonna keep doing it until someone gets mad about it.
Marva Hinton: Well, usually what happens with Edutopia is you are assigned a person like, you know, we were first time we're assigned and they will just let you keep working with that person because you know, you build up a relationship.
Yeah. And that makes for better working together. So usually. I will keep my people, you know, I see my writers unless sometimes, oh, they feel like I have too much work and they say, oh, we're gonna give so-and-so this story, but you can get them back later. So I, as long as I can get them back later, I, I understand.
But I, you get that relationship and you don't wanna stop working with that person. You know, I get excited when I get your pitches in the email, like, oh, Lainie has another new idea that's gonna be great. You know, that type of thing.
Lainie Rowell: You're so kind. Well, and Steph Rothstein was who I wrote my first article with and you know, there's like a back channeling happening.
Steph's like, I put the pitch in, Hey, check your email. We got accepted. I'm like, yay. And then she's like, We got Marva. She's so awesome. And I'm like, okay, perfect. Like this is it. And then you were such a delight to work with. So wonderful. And just like you do on your podcast, honoring other people's voices.
I know you don't need the credit. I just wanna shine the light on you because probably I'm projecting on you because I need a lot of affirmation.
Marva Hinton: Everybody needs, everybody needs positive affirmation, right?
Lainie Rowell: That's true. Okay. Let's get into your definition of gratitude, and then I think we'll get back to some of the things I wanna hear more about, like all the things that make you amazing.
So how would you describe what gratitude means to you?
Marva Hinton: Well, I see it as, I hope this doesn't sound very hokey, but I see it as really a way of living, a way of moving through the world and realizing that it's not about you, you know, being more about we than me and just the basics. You know, I have two young kids.
I have an eight-year-old and a five-year-old, and I am teaching them some of the things, you know, that I learned from my mom when I was growing up about just the basics, Lainie. I'm not talking about anything fancy. I'm talking about just simply saying Please and thank you. Yeah. You know, just. , even though when I was growing up, as I'm sure a lot of people had, I was told those were the magic words and I really didn't understand exactly what that meant as a child.
But you know, as adult, you see, because it opens doors, you know, just expressing gratitude even in the smallest ways. I was recently shopping. I live in South Florida and I'm certainly not going to disparage where I live. I love the weather here, it's great. But the particular area where I live in is not really known for customer service. I'll just say that. I mean, everybody who lives here knows this. And so I was shopping and I bought something and after the lady's like, there you go. That's what she said. , when she was handing my bag, like, there you go. And I was just like, that is so, such a weird thing to say, but you know, , I was like, okay, thanks.
I walk out. Yeah. And, and just those two basic things change how people feel about a situation. So for me it's about always expressing gratitude in everything. When someone does something for you, no matter how small it was, thanking them because they didn't have to do it, you know, you didn't have to invite me on this show.
So just taking the time to say, oh, thank you so much for this opportunity. And also for me, it's also about paying it forward. So if someone has done something for me, you know, I'm thanking them in the moment and I'm also figuring out, well, how can I do something similar for someone else or do something else for them down the line. And I think if we all work through life that way, that things would be so much better. I know it's a part of our culture, I guess, in the United States to be very individualistic and, you know, I'm doing this and I'm, and yes, but there's a but. Yes. But you know, you wouldn't, unless some people helped you out along the way, you wouldn't be there.
And it's important to remember that for everyone.
Lainie Rowell: I love what you said, moving through the world as I, I kind of interpreted it. I don't think this is exactly how you said it... this is where you should probably edit me, . Feel free to send notes. Marva. The moving through the world, like I kind of heard you say moving , through the world as we, not just me, and not that it's not me sometimes, but it's not always me.
Marva Hinton: Right.
Lainie Rowell: And the checker saying, there you go, that that is going to be with me for a while. Usually that's not it. That's not in the customer service handbook. I don't think.
Marva Hinton: No, you know, thanks. Thanks for shopping with us whatever. And they're just like, there you go.
Lainie Rowell: I'm savoring that. I appreciate how you said magic words. Honestly, I've spent a long time focusing on gratitude and I never really thought about how we always growing up or a lot of us growing up heard those are the magic words and it's kind of like when you hear something so much it, it loses its meaning.
And so that was just kind of a natural response that my family would say. Say please and thank you. Those are the magic words, and you start to , not pay attention to it, but if I really step back and go, what did they mean by those are the magic words? It's like, oh, and this is my interpretation. You tell me if you think of something different.
But they're magic words because they are connecting people in a very special way to make them feel seen, heard, known, and valued. Does that...
Marva Hinton: Yes, that definitely tracks as what I was thinking, you know my husband and I are always trying to instill these things in our kids. Just that it's so important to, to do.
I mean my. Son just turned five back in November and we had a birthday party for him, and he got all these nice gifts and I was thinking after the party, we didn't open them in front of everyone. I don't really like to do that just because, you know, you can be kind of a, a, a situation that can make people feel uncomfortable.
Lainie Rowell: Comparison happening, right?
Marva Hinton: Yes. So we don't want that to happen. Yeah. So we waited to everyone at the left and then we, had him open and we took a picture of him with each gift. And then we sent off a text. Oh, thank you so much. He's so looking for, he loves dinosaurs. He's so looking forward to playing with this T-Rex. It's great.
And, oh, thank you so much for this and that. We did it for every single one and, and texted it. I mentioned that because, . You know, sometimes, you know, I kind of grew up with, oh, you send a very nice written thank you note, and , I think that's still a wonderful thing to do. Mm-hmm. , but you know, we're all moving again through the world.
We're all so, so busy now. It's like, just, just do something. Just they love the picture and everybody responded. Oh wow, that's so nice. I'm so glad he likes this and blah, blah, blah. And it was a small thing. I took a picture, I sent a text. , but you could tell from the responses I got that it really meant something to those people and it was also showing him a lesson.
You know, when people do things for us, we always find a way to thank them, always.
Lainie Rowell: That's so beautiful because you're teaching your kids to really be present and do it sooner rather than later with specificity and authenticity rather than we do this because Emily Post says we should do this.
Marva Hinton: Right. And it's good, like you're saying in the moment, like, we, we had the party at a park and we stayed there, we did this. And it's just to say, I know you wanna go play, but these people took time out of their day. They came out, they selected a special gift for you. . You know, Acknowledge that and make them feel good also, because what would the party be without our friends showing up to support us?
Lainie Rowell: Absolutely. Oh, that's so sweet. It's a modeling and a teaching and it's not, a shaming, it's understanding what's developmentally appropriate, right? And that was one of the fun things about writing the book when I had at the time, seven year old and a 10 year old, or, you know, somewhere abouts there. , they're about three years apart. Understanding that one was much closer to be able to truly live in gratitude versus one that was still acquiring those positive skills that would lead to a deeper gratitude. And so, yes, we're gonna model, we're gonna teach, we're gonna encourage in the positive ways that you do, and that's all going to impact how they get to it later in like the truest way.
Marva Hinton: Oh, definitely. And while you were talking, I just thought about another thing that we try to, to model and do is when people aren't expecting things. I think that is so nice , to send someone on a little note and say, oh, the way you, you know, did such and such, that was so wonderful and I, I thank you for you know, helping me be a part of that or sharing that with me.
People love nice surprises or, you know, most people, you know, like a nice note or, you know, a nice email or even a, a text just to say, oh, I, I, you know, I got such and such. That was so wonderful. Thank you for including me. I think so many times we get notifications about things that sometimes they're not so nice that it's nice to do that as well to do just a little nice note just because.
Lainie Rowell: And I think people don't always know what we appreciate about them. And so like you're saying, when you take the time to, it doesn't have to be a, a grand gesture, but those little things and you just say, Hey, I noticed this cause that's the first step in gratitude. You gotta notice it.
A lot of times people are taken aback that they didn't even know that was being noticed. At least that's my experience.
Marva Hinton: Yes, I've definitely had that. I've had someone reach out to me and thank me for something and I hadn't even thought about it, or I certainly didn't know that they noticed.
And, I appreciated it so much and it really helped us on the cases I'm thinking of to become really good friends because I didn't, like, I had no idea that, that, that she was watching and appreciating the way I did this. And so it. . I think it's a good way to connect people to, you know, have a genuine connection with someone is, and don't be shy about it.
Like when you do notice, cause sometimes you're thinking, are they gonna think I'm weird, , do I need to do this? But I found most of the time people really do appreciate it when you, you know, it doesn't take that long, especially if you're sending them an email or it doesn't take that long at all. And it brightens their day, which is another good thing to do.
Lainie Rowell: I find that even people who maybe don't know how to take the compliment or the thank you, and they might even try and deflect a little bit, but they actually still really appreciate it. They just don't always know what to do with it. .
Marva Hinton: Right. Especially since it's so unusual. I think that, so you don't know how to react.
Lainie Rowell: Exactly. So let's talk more about your life in general and how, you know, you did such a beautiful job sharing how you're doing this with your family, but what other ways are you experiencing expressing gratitude in your life?
And you can talk about it through your podcast, through your work with Edutopia, like whatever way you wanna take this.
Marva Hinton: Well, let's see. Let's talk about the podcast for a minute. The ReadMore podcast, as you mentioned is an interview show with authors of color. And I have talked to some really big names sometimes on the show.
But what I really like though is talking to someone who is a new author, just making their debut and I love the chance to share their story and bring them on and let them talk about it in a way that I hope will attract new readers for them, and it's just for me, it's kind of a way to say, you know, thank you for writing, because books have always been so important to me.
I was always a very big reader, you know, as a child. I grew up in a small town in North Carolina and there was a very small, a library there, and I had a library card from a very early age, and then I was. Not as I had read everything there, but I wanted to see more. So it was like the next town over was a bit bigger.
So I got a library card there and I, I could have lived in that place, you know, I loved exploring and just going in with no idea about what I was gonna check out. A lot of the times just, I'm just gonna look, you know, I'm just gonna see what's here. And I had a very wild idea I guess I'll say as a child that I could read all of the books in the library and I was going to start at the A's and I was, you know in the fiction section. And of course, you know, I didn't accomplish that. I didn't realize that, how unrealistic that goal was, . But I did start and I was just, amazed. Like I said, I could have lived in that place and I feel like authors have given me so much that I see this as being able to just give a little bit back. I could never, ever repay them for everything that they gave me as a child, but to, to just try to do a little something that's what the show is about. And also you mentioned you wanted to have people on you wanna connect with. These are people, I just really enjoy their work and so I want them to come on so we can talk about this. I mean, otherwise, you know, how am I gonna get to talk to them?
Lainie Rowell: Like you said, you've had some big names on, I find that authors are very approachable and that they typically will say yes if they can say yes. You know, obviously they don't get paid to be on a podcast.
So I love how you said you graduated to the bigger library and by the way, this is how I know we're kindred spirits. cause I would've probably been like, start with a . Just go in order. There's, there's no other way to do this other than just go alphabetical .
Marva Hinton: I never got outta the A's.
So my goal to read all the books, it was just, like I said, when you're a kid, you don't realize.
Lainie Rowell: Well, what you do with this podcast is not only do you give a platform for these amazing authors, and like you said, you've got some big names, but you also have, you know, people with debut novels and new, new authors.
What I love about it is at this point in my life, I am not a fiction writer, but I have become more interested in writing and it's become a passion of mine. And to get inside the head of a fiction writer is really fun and recently you had Ayana Lloyd Bono on. And I loved her talking about writing villains.
Marva Hinton: That's fun for the conversation because and I never like to give spoilers away on the show, but there is, in her book ,When We Were Birds, there is a villain who is just, something else.
I guess I'll just say , and I wanted to know about that process of writing this person, and she had such a good take on that. I remember she said, you know, a villain has a, a mother too.
Lainie Rowell: Yes.
Marva Hinton: And, you know, has a wife or someone they're taking care of, so they can do these things that we all do and then they can also do some incredibly evil things, and they don't have much of a conscience, you know about doing. So it makes them really fun. It's very freeing to write about someone like that.
Lainie Rowell: It was so fascinating listening to you two talk about that, and I remember her saying, you know, a monster is still a monster. It was just really fun to hear because as someone who writes non-fiction, I don't have that part tapped in as far as my writing. I don't think about like, well, what could this person do? And so it was so fun. Like it's very enjoyable. So it gives me an appreciation for another style of writing that I don't happen to do. Maybe someday I would that is not a commitment device. I don't plan on writing fiction, but, at some point in my life I could. And so it's, it's just really fun to hear. It gives me a new appreciation. I don't read as much fiction as I do non-fiction, but I have actually added a lot of books from your podcast to my wishlist because you get me interested in it, you know, you and the author with no spoilers, but it's like, Ooh, now I wanna know about this villain. Like, this sounds interesting.
Marva Hinton: Yes. Yes it is. And, for those of us who really like to read, it's, you want to be in the writer's head, and I, I try to ask questions about that and see how they come up with these, the characters and how they mesh the story together because there's so many little threads when you're writing, especially a, a, a novel and it's how do you pull everything together? I love talking to them about that.
Lainie Rowell: I thank you for your podcast because I consider that a very public display of gratitude that you're giving this platform to authors, always bringing these authors of different levels of experience and expertise and just sharing their stories is, to me, a very public sign of gratitude.
And then we get to benefit as listeners. So thank you for that.
Marva Hinton: Oh, well you're welcome. I appreciate your gratitude for that because it's definitely a labor of love.
Lainie Rowell: So you have this amazing podcast, the ReadMore podcast, and that's a way to amplify people. Through your work with Edutopia, you're also amplifying, supporting, you know, giving other s a platform.
Tell us a little bit about kind of how that came to be and your experiences there.
Marva Hinton: Well, Lainie, it is such an interesting story because I never applied for my position at Edutopia. I got a direct message on Twitter from Tom Berger, he, he's my boss at Edutopia, and he said, would you be interested in doing some editing work for Edutopia?
And my mom passed away unexpectedly right before the pandemic started. And when he reached out to me, I was still very deep in my grief and I just couldn't even think about a position. I said, well, you know, that sounds really interesting and can you get back to me in a couple of weeks?
We got back together in a couple of weeks. We set up time for an interview and I, again, doing everything I had to do because of life. You know, we experience a loss, but, you know, it's like the world stops for us, but it keeps going for everyone else. So I'm you know, taking my daughter to school.
My son, he was not in school at that point, and Tom and I talked, set up a time for an interview. He told me, he found me through an article that I wrote. Cause as we mentioned, I am a freelance journalist. He found an article I wrote for School Library Journal and he read it and he said, oh, that's the kind of thing that we write at Edutopia. And I guess he must have looked me up or look me up on LinkedIn because I mentioned on there of course, and I do editing work and so we settled on time for this interview. That morning I remember thinking I'm gonna have to do this interview cause it was by phone. I live in Florida, Edutopia is based in California. I planned my day around this interview and I thought, okay, this interview's gonna come in the afternoon. It's gonna be before I pick up my daughter from school. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to, you know, strap my son in his car seat.
We're gonna go to school early because he always fell asleep in the car. He will fall asleep and I will sit in my car and do the interview while he is sleeping. Okay. And so I was supposed to call Tom at the time for the interview. I thought about it that morning as I was getting my daughter ready to go for school.
I had been thinking about it in the days leading up to it, you know, because when you do an interview by phone, you can kind of prepare more. You're like, oh, I'll have these little notes so I can remember to say these things and blah, blah, blah. Like super prepared, but then that afternoon, I don't know what happened.
I go pick up my daughter. I completely forgot it. I've never told a story before. I completely forgot the interview. I was supposed to call. I completely forgot. I went and picked up my daughter. I did everything I was supposed to do except call Tom. And so I get home and it's probably been, I don't know, it might have been 30 minutes to an hour after I was supposed to call.
I don't remember all the specifics, but then Tom calls me and when he called me, he was almost like he forgot I was supposed to call him, and he was just talking to me. And , at this point, I remember I was sitting in my living room. I didn't have anything. I, I don't remember.
Maybe the kids were upstairs playing. I was downstairs and I guess my husband, he might have been working. I, I don't remember him being there. So none of the nice environment I had planned for this, none of it. I completely forgot. Like I said, I've never told a story publicly. Tom doesn't know this.
He'll find out listening to this podcast and yet we still had a good conversation. and we had it, and I think he, you know, he might have even apologized for calling me late. I don't really remember how that part went down, but I do remember that I totally messed up. Like I did not do what I was supposed to do, and I, I just blamed, even though some time had passed, I was still in this fog of grief.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah.
Marva Hinton: And , we talked, we had a good interview, then you have to take an editing test. I did that and that went well. And I ended up, you know, being hired on as a contractor to do editing work. And I just feel like I. That wasn't because of anything that, you know, I have done. Like it was all, you know, he approached me out of the blue.
I wasn't even familiar really with Edutopia Then, you know, this man just reached out to me on Twitter and I forgot the interview. I did like all the stuff you're not supposed to do like that should have just totally ruined my chances, you know? And I just feel like, I don't know, sometimes you these things out there. You know, , I'm a person of faith and I, I believe that all of these, these good things that have happened to me really aren't because of anything that I have done to deserve them. I feel like it's, you know, I am being blessed and it's like, you know, God's grace and mercy that, you know just shines on me.
And that's why these things are happening. And because, like I said, I did everything to blow that. I mean, I could see somebody saying, you know, she was supposed to call. She didn't, what's wrong with her? And I also feel like the, the work I do at Edutopia, honors my mom, who was an educator, and as I mentioned, I have two aunts who were educators as well, and it honors them and it's just a privilege to get to work with these amazing teachers who are sacrificing so much for their students. In what is often a, a job where you don't get the appreciation that you should. Especially recently I mean, in the past, it was a position that people really revered and looked up to. And now, unfortunately, you see in some corners, You know, teachers are under attack and I, I hate to see that, but I love the fact that I can work with teachers and amplify their voices.
Teachers who are doing amazing things in the classroom who show such love for their students, and work in not always the best conditions, but they still go back day after day for the, the children. I, I feel really blessed that I get to work with people who are like that.
Lainie Rowell: First let me say I am sorry to hear about your mom.
It almost feels like there was some guiding to Edutopia.
Marva Hinton: I know, I, I feel like that too because, you know, my mom didn't get to live to see me doing this work, but I think she would really be proud and get a kick out of the fact that I am working with educators every day.
Lainie Rowell: That's a beautiful legacy. I love that connection between you two. And I have to say, it's really funny that , I, I love your story and, and. I almost wonder if it was all meant to be that way, because sometimes when we're like super focused and like, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get this. Like, we're almost too much. It was kind of like, so much had happened and you're just like, well, this is just gonna be, what's gonna be.
Marva Hinton: I mean, I did have a lot of high hopes, like, oh, I, I really messed this up, but I'm gonna do my best and I'm gonna do the interview and it felt more like just a conversation versus, oh, you know, we're doing an interview. That type of thing. Yeah. Maybe it didn't make me more relaxed, but like I said, I was just, I, I. Just in that fog, you know, it's like going through the motions, doing everything I have to do because, you know, I am a mom and I have these responsibilities.
But I, still felt like I was in that cloud and that's the only way I can explain like totally forgetting that.
Lainie Rowell: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And at that point it's like you're grieving your mom and you've got young kids and you've just got so much going on in your life and you're like, well, I missed it. So that's done, and then, and then he calls you and you're like, well, let's just see how this goes. I'll do my best.
Marva Hinton: It was totally like that. And it's just the whole experience is so odd. Like, you know, I didn't know about the job, I didn't apply for it. It approached me and it was, it's, it's been a very good experience.
And you know, for any educators who are listening, I do encourage you if you're doing something in your classroom that is really resonating with kids and you think your fellow educator, Would like to know about it please send a pitch to Edutopia and get your story out there. Let other people know about what you're doing.
That's so cool. So maybe they can, you know, replicate it and do the same thing with their students.
Lainie Rowell: That is the beautiful thing. Edutopia has quite a reach and I think that's a big criteria for the pitches that are selected, is that it's stuff that other educators can implement in their classroom, even if it's a tweak or a , remix of it.
Marva Hinton: Right. Totally Lainie, that's what it's about. It's not about, oh, you should do this. It's a, yeah, why don't you try this? Yeah, it's working for this educator.
It might work for you. You know? And I think that attitude helps to draw people to Edutopia because we try not to come in and say, oh, you're doing something wrong, or, no, no. It's like, maybe you could try this if you're having this issue with your students. You know, maybe, maybe it's, whether it's classroom management or just building relationships.
You know, why don't you try this? and, and see where it goes. It's been very successful for this teacher who's just like you, you know? We also, of course, work with administrators and consultants and, and people who work in those fields as well, but it's mainly, it's one educator talking to another educator about what's working.
And we always try to stress, you know, please take a conversational tone in your article because we want it to be just like, it's you're having a conversation with another teacher.
Lainie Rowell: Yes. Working with you and the rest of the Edutopia team has taught me a lot. One of the big ones that relates to something you just said is, I have stopped using the word "should".
And my most read article on Edutopia was about the three SEL practices you "can" do every day. Cause my original title was, You "Should" Do Every Day, you know, the Welcome Inclusion, the Engaging Strategies, and the Optimistic Closure, and that "should" word can be so triggering.
Because it's like, if you're not doing this, you're less than. That wasn't my intent using the word should. And when that got edited, I was like, oh my gosh, that is a loaded word. Why did I not see that when I wrote that title?
Marva Hinton: Yes. I think a lot of people do things like that, not intentionally, as you mentioned.
, can have the effect of making someone feel like, oh, you know, I'm not doing this. I'm messing up. And we never want anyone to feel like they are messing up because they're not doing X, Y, or Z. It's just, you know, this is something you could try. It's been successful for me. If you wanna know, you know, something you can try in your classroom, you maybe give this a try. It's a suggestion. You know, it's never a you must do this. No, it's always give it a try.
Lainie Rowell: I know I need to let you go. You've got so much going on. You wear many hats and I am just, I'm really sad right now to end this conversation.
Marva Hinton: So honestly, we have to figure out how we can talk again. And I'm looking forward to you writing again. I know you're very busy. But your articles are always so wonderful because the things you talk about you know, obviously Edutopia is for educators. Yeah. But they're always takeaways, whether you're an educator or not really. If you are working with other people, if you have children and you want to know about how you can build them up, like your work is wonderful for that. So it's not just for educators.
Lainie Rowell: You're so kind.
Marva Hinton: ,
I appreciate you having me on the show.
It's, it's really been a pleasure. I was very nervous. I have to tell you, I was very nervous to come on. I don't know why. But I was just nervous. Like, what am I, what am I gonna say? Because I know you do primarily have educators on, and I'm not an educator but this has been a great experience and I so appreciate you inviting me.
Lainie Rowell: I disagree. I think you are an educator. You earned your strives being a substitute, a paraprofessional, you are an educator to me and to many, you have taught me so much. Once an educator, always an educator in my mind.
Marva Hinton: Well, thank you very much. You know, funny you mentioned that when I was a kid, like so many other kids, you know, and also with my mom being when I just knew I was going to to be a teacher somehow, and so maybe I am, somehow educating with what I do now.
Lainie Rowell: You are. You absolutely are. You make me better with every article I get to write with you, and so thank you for that. I'm gonna give you a chance to do a quick shout out and then please tell us how people can connect with you. I'll put it in the show notes too.
Marva Hinton: Okay, well I am on Twitter @MarvaAHinton. You can find me there. I'm also on Instagram, although I admit I do not post very much. I'm just not as much of a visual person.
So I am on there at the same handle @MarvaAHinton. You can also find me on LinkedIn if you'd like to connect that way. I guess those are the main ways. You can listen to the ReadMore podcast, wherever you get your podcasts.
Lainie Rowell: People are gonna wanna connect with you. Is there anyone you wanna give a quick little shout out to? I think we've given some shout outs as we've gone. I think we both wanna shout out to Tom.
Marva Hinton: Yes, please. I was thinking of that. We have to shout out Tom, you know, Tom is just a wonderful guy to work for and I've had such a great experience and I've learned so much from him. So definitely give a shout out to Tom Berger .
Also, if this is okay I'd also like to give a shout out to my husband Derek. He is so supportive of everything I do. Lainie, I cannot tell you just how much that means. Even when I feel like, oh, I'm not doing anything, or, oh, that wasn't so great.
He's always like, no, you're doing a great job. Keep it up. And just that little thing really it keeps me going. So I definitely wanna shout out to my husband, Derek.
Lainie Rowell: Well, and I agree with Derek. You are awesome. You do so much. And I hope you don't take this as an insult, but I know you're a little, self-effacing as far as all you do, but we see it, and so I think it can be grateful to God and grateful to ourselves.
Is that fair?
Marva Hinton: Yeah. You know, I think that is fair and I don't want it to come across as I'm saying it's never about you. Cause we know sometimes we do have to take time for ourselves and that's very important and we you know, should celebrate our accomplishments. But I, I just feel like so many times it just goes a little bit too far.
And you do forget the people who helped you out along the way. I never want to forget those people.
Lainie Rowell: You don't. Everything I see you definitely don't. So thank you for being here, my friend. This has been so amazing. I have been looking forward to chatting with you live for so long, and I hope we get to collaborate on something very soon.
Thank you for your time and thank you all for listening.
Marva Hinton: Thank you, Lainie.
Lainie Rowell
If you're grateful for this episode, please be sure to subscribe today. And if you're feeling really thankful, please go to Apple podcasts to submit a review so other educators know the value. One last thing. Please connect on social media using the hashtag #EvolvingWithGratitude to share your gratitude stories.
