Episode 64 - To-Go Plates of Joy with Guest Marlon Styles

Shownotes:

If you are ready to discover how to elevate the energy of the collective in the room, you have come to the right place! In this electric episode, Marlon Styles gifts us stories of provoking joy and energizing our learning communities. Plus, learn about how Grandma Watson can inspire each of us to dish out to-go plates of joy. This is a tasty episode you don’t want to miss!

About Our Guest:

Marlon Styles is a recognized inspirational speaker and educational leader. In 2017, he was named a Top 30 Digital Trailblazer by the Center for Digital Education. Under his leadership at Middletown City Schools, the district was awarded the ISTE Distinguished District Award in 2019. He testified before the United States Congress in 2020 to advocate for access and opportunity for all students. K-12 Dive recognized him as the Superintendent of the Year in 2020 for his advocacy and leadership to close equity gaps on a national stage.

Website: https://marlonstyles.com

Twitter: @Styles_MarlonJr

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing focusing on community building, social emotional learning, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn postgraduate degrees in education. As an international keynoter and a consultant, Lainie’s client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linktr.ee/lainierowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Twitter - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@LainieRowell ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Instagram - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@LainieRowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ And now, Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You is available too!

Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.🙌

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Just fill out the forms linked above and someone will get back to you ASAP! 

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Hello, my friends. Oh, it's a treat day. It's a treat day. I'm giving you a treat right now because I have Marlon Styles with me. Marlon, welcome.

Marlon Styles: So good to see you. So good to see you. Thanks for having me. Ready to have some fireside chat type fun. Let's go.

Lainie Rowell: Let's do this.

Okay. I'm going to properly introduce you, Marlon.

It will not be enough so I want you to jump in. Marlon Styles is a recognized inspirational speaker and educational leader. He has been named a Top 30 Digital Trailblazer by the Center for Digital Education. Under his leadership at Middletown City Schools, his district was awarded the ISTE Distinguished District Award. He has testified before the US Congress advocating for access and opportunity for all students.

K-12 Dive recognized him as Superintendent of the Year and he is just amazing. There's so much to know and so Marlon, that was just scratching the surface. Please tell us more, help make it better.

Marlon Styles: Yeah, I don't know if I can make it any better. I'm just a normal educator that just loves giving back to people. Marlon Styles been a superintendent, Middletown City Schools the last six years, currently in transition as a partner at Learner Center Collaborative, doing some amazing work as a team in a company with school districts across the country and also a brand new inspirational speaker just trying to discover message that gets educators excited about being in the field of education and serving kids. A lot of gratitude to celebrate today. I'm just thrilled to be here. Looking forward to having some fun with you.

Lainie Rowell: Let's have some fun, and let's start off with the, the question that I like to ask first, and then we're gonna dive deeper into your work and all the goodness you're putting out there.

So, knowing there's no right or wrong answer, Marlon, what does gratitude mean to you?

Marlon Styles: Fun question, right? Fun question. For me it's about people. You started out with awards, but the story behind the awards are the people. gratitude to me just means being able to just sit, I mean, locked arms, shoulder to shoulder, right alongside people and just serve others.

And I've been fortunate to, in my career, especially the last six years in Middletown, to be alongside some amazing educators just working to serve the community. gratitude to me means being able to go in the cafeteria on the first day of school when it's breakfast and it's kindergarten, lunch, and being able to help out kindergartners open up those syrup packets, knowing that it's gonna end up all over your clothes and your shoes.

gratitude to me means being able to show up for bus duty alongside outside some of the educators and just greet students as they get off the bus and arrive to school. gratitude to me just means being able to help a child, to help an educator, an adult, you know, discover the start of a dream they didn't see coming, that that's gratitude.

And those are the special moments that really filled my heart with joy. And I know there's a lot of educators right now in the field to get a chance to do that every single day. It's that feel good moment.

Lainie Rowell: Well, you're feeling my heart with joy and those listening too, and I wanna add those syrup packets are tough and I don't even think it's just kindergartners, right?

We're all struggling with them.

Marlon Styles: Have you ever tried at kindergarten lunch to open up a packet of syrup on breakfast lunch day and then turn right around with the same student and they say, Hey, can you help me open up my chocolate milk carton? That's difficult.

Lainie Rowell: I feel like I've been there and you know, I actually was a kindergarten teacher.

That was the very first grade that I taught. And back then you could have a four year old in kindergarten. Ooh. And that's just not even fair to give them those, those syrup packets because here I am, well, well, well into my forties and, and I find them stressful.

So understood they need secure packaging so that they don't come, come on all over the place. But I love how you gave those very, very specific examples, these moments in a day as an educator that are so special with kids and with adults. And that really resonated with me because I do think it's very easy to lead a distracted life and not notice these things.

But when you are being so intentional and focusing on those very important little moments that are actually really big moments, I think that makes all the difference.

Marlon Styles: Yeah. The cool part about it is always try to do an energy check. Like, where's your energy?

Not necessarily my mind, but where's my, where's my spirit at right now? I'm always try to think about those special moments in time, especially during the school year, where if you really put together this powerful moment and this experience for the people who you're trying to impact, if you take time to really think intentionally about creating that moment and the experience in that moment and the impact it'll have.

It's actually fun, right? Mm-hmm. Let's take convocation for example, right? Some of your listeners might hear this right around the start of the school year. But convocation is a cool moment. I mean, a fun moment, right? We tried to create a standard when I was a superintendent that can it be so fun and joyful, so electric, so energizing that after winter break, people are still talking about convocation.

A 60 minute moment, a 60 minute moment. But can the experience be that energizing for everyone in the audience and the staff that they're talking about how energizing it was around Christmas break. That's a cool moment, right? So you talk about intentional moments. I would encourage leaders, educators, anyone in the field, think about those moments as you stand in front of people, as you sit at the same table with them, and you're doing that unique, really powerful, powerful work together.

Don't forget those special moments to really can energize your spirit, energize the people around in the circle, and really elevate the excitement of the collective group. Those are the feel good pieces that I don't encourage you to think about.

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely. So I would love to hear. And you can take this whatever direction you want. It could be in your role as a superintendent, in the work you're doing currently, or both, what are some of the practices, the rituals if you will? How do you see gratitude fitting into your life, and you're talking about it in these moments, but I wonder if there's any other ways, other tips that you would have for listeners about how they can move to that grateful disposition.

That's what I hear you talking about is being super intentional to get to that grateful disposition. What do you do and what would you suggest others do?

Marlon Styles: Yes. What do you care about? Right. So for me one thing that's always been a practice, personal life, professional life, take the title, position off of it professionally.

I always try to focus on the give back moments, right? And I try to make commitments around paying it forward. Somebody did it for me. The only reason I'm on this podcast is cuz there's a laundry list of people who invested in me to get me to this point in my career. I hope I listened and learn from them and try to apply it, and the hard work is really paid off, but I try to make sure I make the commitment to live it every single time I can as I interact with people to be able to pay it forward.

The first thing that I would share is as you interact with different educators in your community just listen, right? Listen to what their aspirations are, something we practice at Learner Centered, but listen to those aspirations. And really make a commitment to helping someone reach and fulfill all those aspirations.

It's not necessarily about me telling you how to do it. It's not about me giving you advice on how to do it. It's just me making a commitment to pay it forward by investing in you. So number one, listen to those aspirations. Hold true to those, and really try to invest in other people. And your heart will be filled with gratitude.

Number two, what I'll share also is to celebrate, right? When you discover and experience really moments of gratitude, just pause, right? Collect the energy in the room. Engage the people who are present in that joyful moment. And, and recognize it. And celebrate it, and take your watch and put everything on pause.

Throw your phone on the floor and just celebrate that joyful moment. Oftentimes we get in the hustle and bustle of do, do, execute, rip this off, check this off the list, let's go do that. When we have those moments of gratitude, you know, to be able to sit and celebrate with someone who's a colleague, who's a partner, who's a friend who's a teammate it, it just can really electrify the environment.

And being able to do those consistently. That'd be the second thing I would share consistently. Celebrate all those joyful moments. It'll really electrify your heart, fill you with joy, but more importantly, it'll really elevate the energy of the collective in the room.

Lainie Rowell: You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about the listen to and invest in others and to celebrate with intention, collect that energy consistently. I feel like we live in a culture that kind of glorifies busyness, like, oh, I'm so busy, and you know, oh good. You're doing things. You're getting stuff done. And I think what I hear you talking about is slowing down in the best way possible to really honor people and to truly get to know them and to truly be there for them. And then also just, I love that idea of collecting the energy.

To me, I wanna savor that for a minute because I think that's something that's very easy to move past. Allyson Apsey and Jessica Gomez have a new book out called Lead with Collaboration, and one of the things they talk about is, when you're doing that starting, you know, you can call it an icebreaker, but there's sometimes better words for it.

Sometimes there's already energy in the room and then you're like, stop we ought to do an icebreaker is an example that Allyson gives and it's like, wait, you already had that energy going? Why are you putting a halt to that and moving onto something else that might actually diminish that.

And so I really love what you're saying. Nice little shout out to Allyson and Jessica. I really thought that that resonated with me because I do think we tend to, like I said, just kind of glorify the busyness and actually really there's something very special about the slowing down and honoring people.

Marlon Styles: Think about the busy, right, the busy versus enjoying the moment. If I'm busy, then my educator joy starts to diminish, potentially. If I'm busy, then I might get in this mindset where I've had enough. But if I slow down and I enjoy the moment, I recognize the moment we celebrate the moment, then something different might happen that something different might move you from I've had enough to really getting excited about answering the question. Have I done enough? It might get you excited about exploring the potential to take advantage of an opportunity to do something special. More importantly, it might create an opportunity for your educator joy to start to elevate itself.

So really considering the choice in the moment to really think about do I wanna acknowledge the busy or don't wanna enjoy the moment, really could put you in two different mindsets. As an educator, I know which one I prefer and not sure about you.

Lainie Rowell: I'm with you. And it's, it's really trying to savor.

Sometimes it's just small moments. It doesn't have to be like an extra hour or anything like that. Sometimes it's just two minutes, three minutes, five minutes. That makes a huge, huge difference. And lately I've been thinking a lot about this idea of time poor versus time rich. And maybe it's partly reflecting and thinking about heading into this next school year, is just this idea of when we have this mindset of time poor, and I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy, and we don't take those moments to slow down...

I think when you feel time famished, that's not great for your wellbeing. That's pretty bad for your wellbeing. So I think it's heading into the new school year with that mindset of how can I savor these little moments? I still have stuff to do, but that doesn't mean I can't take these moments too.

I love that. Collect the energy, listen to people. So good.

Marlon Styles: Think of your, think of your joy, think of your educator. Joy as an asset, right? If you know anything about value in assets and if you invest in your assets, they will appreciate. So that age old saying, what you appreciate, will appreciate.

Let's attach the word joy to that educator joy. If you appreciate your educator joy, your educator joy will appreciate meaning if you invest in it daily, you invest in it weekly. You invest in it moment by moment with the colleagues who feel your heart doing the same passion driven work that you are over time, your educator joy is gonna appreciate it itself. And you'll be looking up and there'll be somebody at the other end of the stick who discovered a dream they never saw coming. It could be a student, it could be a colleague, could be a family member, a friend. But somebody's on a discover a dream they didn't see coming. All because you're making investments in your asset, your educator joy. It's gonna fill your heart, it'll feel good.

Lainie Rowell: What I'm really appreciating, and again, I'm, I'm in this mindset of like, okay you and I are both about to hit the road and get to have these amazing experiences helping schools start off their year.

And I, I really think I hear you saying you want all of us to find that joy. And it's been a hard few years, but I think we're to the point now where we can really go, no, this is a good profession. This is, you know, not that it ever wasn't a good profession. I don't wanna come off like that, but just I think we're to the place now where I we've learned a lot. We've grown a lot, and now this is what we get to do.

Marlon Styles: Yeah, I mean, every day we get a choice and a chance. You're guaranteed it every single day. It might be your choice and chance that you're giving yourself or somebody else presenting it to you, but you get in a choice and a chance every day to be excited about filling the, the space you sit in with others and around others with joy.

You get a chance and a choice every day to, to take advantage of time, to create moments of, of, of joy. I'm talking, I don't know about you, but I'm a goosebump guy. A goosebump, joyful moment. Not sure if you've ever had any of those as an educator, but when you have those goosebump joyful moments, it just absolutely sets your world on fire and those around you that you're serving.

So as you walk into the start of the school year, it's a great time to not just refresh your educator joy, but to invest in that asset and treat it like if it was your favorite pop, your favorite ice cream, something you gotta have nonstop. But, but really appreciate that asset. You know, protect it, invest in it every day and celebrate it.

Right? Let the whole world know how it feels to be an education and serve others right now. And it's okay to say I'm having a good time doing it. It's okay to say it.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. And social contagion is a big deal. And so what we put out there others feel that. And this is a time where we're really wanting to highlight those joys, those positives, because we want other people to join this profession.

We love what we get to do. Not every moment. Let's acknowledge that. That's fine. But there's so much good in what we do and I think we really need to make sure and be very loud about the good things because we want people coming into this profession. We want people to also appreciate it when they're already in it.

And I think it's really easy if, if we hear the constant challenges and negativities, and it's not to ignore them, but to overcome them and to also really point out, here are the wins. Here's the really great thing that I get to do today. Even if its opening a syrup packet for a kindergartener, that's a win!

So, Marlon, I feel like you're a storyteller, and I'll cut this out if you don't wanna use this, but I would love to hear, what is a moment in your career that you were just so grateful. Again, it could be maybe from classroom time, it could be from a superintendent role, or maybe even just something you're doing right now.

I'm putting you on the spot, so I'll edit it out if you're not up for this, but if you've got a story ready to go, I'd love to hear it.

Marlon Styles: A story?. Ooh, okay. One year...

Lainie Rowell: you got it already? That's fast.

Marlon Styles: Oh yeah.. It's a people story. So one year in Middletown, hopped online and I bought this flathead, I mean, a full body flathead of Justin Timberlake. I don't know if you like JT or not, but I get down with JT the drop of a dime. I won't sing right now. I'll go back to the story. We bought it and we had it shipped to the office in Middletown, right?

So I hopped on my social media account, took a picture with Justin Timberlake, as if the guy was there in person, and I put this teaser post out on social media, tagged everybody in the district talking about it. Convocation this year we're gonna catch the feeling that song came out and fell in love with it.

We teased convocation around a, a theme for the year about catching the feeling. And JT was the heartbeat of that whole, whole energy and that whole vibe. We took him around the district, we posed him at different locations, had him in a, a suit and tie. I know that's one of his songs. But we, we teased it for like 30 days leading up to convocation.

A special moment. I'm gonna shout out Creekview Elementary right now. Creekview Elementary, the entire staff, right before convocation, they put a video together as a staff around one of JT songs, catch the Feeling, and they had a staff-wide dance around that. So when we talk about moments, right, if you intentionally think about how you can create the vibe in your school community, for me it was a flathead of JT getting people excited about convocation coming back to school, that the moment that really filled my heart was watching a whole staff of adults, whether they could dance, sing or not, doesn't matter, but to come together.

And do something pretty daggone, special dancing around in the hallways, all around a song. When they walked into convocation that year, I'll tell you what, they lit the place on fire. I don't wanna tell you everything they did but, but the singing, the dancing, the stereo, the music that outfits, the crazy hair, the wild things they did that year, convocation, it just really made it such a, a gratifying moment.

Something I'll never forget that, that whole 30 day sprint right there leading up to convocation a lot of fun, lot of fun.

Lainie Rowell: First of all, my heart is bursting. Yes. JT fan over here. In fact, I think my whole house is full of JT fans. You mentioned earlier, if you can put on a convocation that they're talking about at winter break.

I bet they were talking about that at Winter Break

Marlon Styles: Blast. The kids came out and they performed a song live in person, and the staff didn't know they were coming out. We kept it a big secret. We had hype dancers and the crowd staged certain staff members. We swar 'em the secrecy and they kept a big, big secret.

But the tail end of that was this giant performance of about a thousand people in our arena, and the kids lit it on fire as one of the most magical moments in Middie Rising that I'd ever been a part of. And it just started with people. It wasn't me on the microphone, it wasn't the principal on the microphone.

It was Middie's of all walks of life, just lighting that environment up for that eight minute segment. People bobbing their head, clapping their hands, stomping their feet, dancing, singing place was standing up, rocking. It just was a magical moment.

Lainie Rowell: I feel it. I'm smiling ear to ear and I can envision it.

You told that story so beautifully. I can completely see it and feel the energy in the way that you're even describing it. I feel the energy and earlier when I was doing the intro I know people are not necessarily going to brag about themselves so I wanted to give your accolades on your behalf, but you immediately took it back to the people.

And when I say, oh, do you have a story to share? It's about the people. And I think that community that you cultivate, that, you're leading, that you're a part of that's just really, really special. It's contagious and that's having such an impact, not just the staff or the kids, but that that spreads out to families.

That is far reaching. What a great way. And so people will be listening to this... I'm so out of my recording schedule, but people will be listening to this in probably August, so they might not have had theirs yet. Just depends on, you know, we're on a very.

Nowadays we're on a very interesting, who's starting in July, who's starting in August. My kids start in September. But if you have not already had your convocation this year, I encourage you to think of a way to really light it up like that. You know, I spend some time with Instagram reels.

I like to make them, and I'll go look for inspiration. And there's, Coldplay does a concert. They give you these wristbands with lights on it. It is a vibe. The energy that they put out is amazing, but you don't even need those wristbands, right? Even if you just dim the houselights, pull out your cell phones, turn on your screen, turn on your flashlight on your camera, whatever, start waving those things around and then, like you said, Marlon, have the kids if you can, have the music that you can, get that energy going.

Marlon Styles: Every convocation. I started this before I even introduced myself to the staff as their new superintendent. My first year had 'em pull their phones out and we took a five minute window and we just called it Selfie Moments. Right. Could you imagine just the invitation to not have to talk business for a minute and just grab whoever's near you that you probably sat down next to on purpose, because you're just so excited to see your people when you come back.

And for five minutes we just took a bunch of selfies and we, we blew social media up. Community gotta see how excited we were to be back. Some of those pictures, people still hold on today, but some of the biggest smiles you've ever seen, all because of convocation. We took a few minutes. Turn the microphone off and just created selfie moments.

I mean, arms out like this, taking pictures, people hugging each other. Just again, it's about feel good, it's about joy. And if you can create joyful moments your joy's gonna appreciate.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, that's so cool. You can even do that at a staff meeting. Like just turn on some super fun music upbeat that's gonna get the energy in the room up.

All right, we've got three minutes for selfies. Let's go.

Marlon Styles: Go, let's go. And then you gotta go jump in the crowd and take some selfies too.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, that's so great. I love that. I am definitely going to borrow Selfie Moments, if that's okay with you.

Marlon Styles: Make it happen. Make it happen.

Lainie Rowell: That's a great one. All right, my friend. You already gave a lovely shout out to Creekview. Do you have any other shout outs you'd like to give?

Marlon Styles: Yeah. I'm gonna shout out my Grandma Watson, if that's cool.

Lainie Rowell: Please tell us about Grandma Watson.

Marlon Styles: Grandma Watson made two things. Well, several things. The best sweet potatoes you've ever had in your life, the best macaroni and cheese you've ever had in your life.

Best homemade ice cream. The best fried chicken made the best. Right? And I mean, I stack my grandma's fried chicken up against anybody, but I'll get back to the the question, but I wanna shout her out because I think there's a lesson we can take from Grandma Watson. It'll really get the education field really excited, right?

The idea of to-go plates and grandma's house every time you went over there, she was always dishing out to go plate. She always had something to eat and you always got it to go plate. Packed up to go to the point where people were showing up on the Tupperware cuz they knew it was coming. So I like to shout her out because she taught me to provide to go plates, right?

And I believe as educators we should be dishing out to go plates of joy as different experiences happen. As you capture the moment of somebody doing something super joyful to really invest in the community. Dish out a, a, a to-go plate of joy, right? As you're having a conversation for some with someone, make sure your conversations are provoking joy in that colleague and that person and that individual and that student. And give them a to-go plate. Be careful who you give to-go plates to make sure they appreciate the joy that you're really handing out to them. But my grandma made sure every time someone left her house, they had something in their hand they could be joyful about.

I really wanna shout her out because she's gonna inspire a lot of educators here as they start dishing out to go play to joy this upcoming school year.

Lainie Rowell: I think that is a beautiful shout out. I almost lost concentration when you said sweet potatoes, because those are my favorite. A hundred percent. I mean, yeah, like we're both drooling right now.

Marlon Styles: Right now

Lainie Rowell: To go plates of joy is profoundly beautiful and I think that I'm like just really processing it because that's so special. It's not just while we're together, it's, I wanna send you off with this, wow. That's a mic drop.

Grandma Watson man. I'm impressed. I love that.

Marlon Styles: Also. I mean, she was the real deal. I mean, if you not taking care of your business, I got in trouble, Ms. Thornton's class one year in fifth grade, I pulled a chair out from somebody. She called home.

My grandma found out I got in trouble at school. Best believe that next Saturday morning. I didn't get it to go plate.

Lainie Rowell: You gotta have consequences. Oh my goodness. Grandma Watson. I don't know you, but I love you. Well, that was beautiful, my friend and I, I gotta let you go, but I would love it if you could please share how do people connect with you?

What's the best way on the socials website, we want the full, we want the full to go plate. How do we get, get more of you after this.

Marlon Styles: Absolutely a, I would love to come out to your school community and just share some inspiring words as a guest speaker, as someone could just connect with their education community.

You can check me out on my website, www.marlonstyles.com. Hit me up with a message on all social medias, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. Check me out. Hit me up any chance you can. If you just want to talk, if you're just an educator looking, just have some conversation. Get excited for start of school year.

Shoot me a message. Happy to connect with you and get you fired up. Welcome back in the start of school year here to serve man. Here to serve more importantly here to ignite unifier. That's my calling in life.

Lainie Rowell: Well, you certainly ignited me and our listeners and so I am thrilled to get this episode out into the world.

Cannot Wait. I will be sure to put all of your info in the show notes. Make it as easy as possible cause I know people are gonna wanna connect with you. A S A P, Marlon. Thank you for this time. Oh my goodness. I could talk to you forever.

Marlon Styles: Back at ya. I appreciate you having me. I had fun. I'm not sure about you, but you had a lot of fun.

Lainie Rowell: My, my honor. And I really do. Hope we get to chat again soon. And Friends, Marlon, you gotta, you have him out to your district. Have 'em out to your school. Connect. It's all in the show notes. So alright my friends, that does it for this episode and thank you all for listening.

Marlon Styles: Thank you guys. Enjoy the rest of your summer.

Episode 63 - SEEing to Lead with Guest Chris Jones

Shownotes:

Let's discuss the power of gratitude and its impact on leadership and education! In this episode, we dive into the concept of being teacher-centered in order to create a positive and supportive environment for students. Chris shares his journey of discovering the importance of supporting, engaging, and empowering teachers, and how it led him to write his book, "SEEing to Lead." With anecdotes and insights, we explore the significance of gratitude in daily life and its transformative effects. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that will leave you feeling grateful and motivated to make a positive difference in the world.

About Our Guest:

Dr. Chris Jones has been an educator in Massachusetts for 22 years. Chris is currently the Vice President of the Massachusetts State Administrators Association (MSAA). He is the author of SEEingtoLead, a book that provides strategies for how modern leaders can and must support, engage, and empower their teachers to elevate student success. He also hosts a podcast of the same name to amplify teachers’ voices in an effort to improve education as a whole. Most recently, Chris was named the 2022 Massachusetts School Counselors Association's (MASCA) Administrator of the Year.

Website: teamjonesedu.com

Newsletter: sendfox.com/DrCSJones

Twitter: @DrCSJones
linkedIn: @drcsjones

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Evolving Learner⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and a contributing author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Because of a Teacher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Her latest book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Evolving with Gratitude⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linktr.ee/lainierowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Twitter - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@LainieRowell ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Instagram - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@LainieRowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ And now, ⁠Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You⁠ is available too!

Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.🙌

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Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Welcome, my friends. I am so excited to have Dr. Chris Jones on the pod. Welcome, Chris.

Chris Jones: Hi, how are you?

Lainie Rowell: I'm doing better now that I get to talk to you and I'm very excited. Happy Summer. We're recording this towards the end of June, and so I'm guessing you're on maybe a quiet campus.

Chris Jones: Yeah, it's, it's pretty quiet and I'm, I'm really happy to be talking to you because I love the stuff you put out and I'm really happy for it.

So I'm excited to have a, a conversation about gratitude with you, but this is a good time because the campus is quiet and we can always tend to focus a little more on what we need to when, when things slow down a little bit.

Lainie Rowell: Yes. And I should mention that you are a high school principal, so slowing down is something that does not happen often for you.

So I think we had some good timing getting you on the pod.

Chris Jones: Yes. No, it doesn't happen often, so I, I take advantage of it every chance I get. I don't have to work as long a days and I get more done. Go figure.

Lainie Rowell: .Well, I do want to back up a little bit cuz I just get so excited to talk to you.

I'm like already in it, but I do wanna back up a little bit and give you a little more of a formal introduction, which listeners of the show know, I can't do even when I try. But I am gonna make an honest effort here. Because I am a fan of you and the work that you put out there, and I wanna make sure people know at least some of the, the credentials as we go in here.

So, as I mentioned, you are a high school principal. Dr. Chris Jones is also the president-elect of Massachusetts State Administrators Association, M S A A. And he is an amazing author. He is the author of SEEing to Lead and I hope he will talk about that because this is a very important book and I mean, he's also a podcast host.

Oh my goodness. The like Cardinal Sin, of podcast host is to not acknowledge the podcast status of someone else. So I want to make sure and say he is also an amazing podcast host. I have had the pleasure of being on his podcast. So, with that, Chris, is there anything else you wanna add? Because I, I barely scratched the surface on your credentials.

Chris Jones: No, I, you know what? I think you covered it. I appreciate you saying those kind words about the book. I, that was kind of a a long coming idea wise, but quick product that I put out through a process of a lot of caring, I think. So that's why it's good that we're talking about gratitude. And the podcast, it's funny, people ask me what came first, kinda like a chicken or the egg thing, because they're of the same name and the idea of the book and the beginning of the writing of the book came before the podcast.

But so yes, that's, that's the official answer that I'm, I'm gonna stick with

Lainie Rowell: You stick with that. I mean, yes, that does, that does come up sometimes. And we both have books and podcasts with the same name, and they, they feed each other. I, I find for me, right.

Chris Jones: Absolutely. So I don't wanna say we're twinning, but we might be twinning.

Lainie Rowell: I'll go with twining. I'm up for that. Well, I'm gonna ask you the quintessential first question. I don't even know if that's the right use of the word quintessential. I'm gonna ask you the typical first question and then I'm gonna ask you to dig deep in, and I don't think I even mentioned this, but let me, lemme make sure and point this out, that you were actually named as Administrator of the Year by Massachusetts School Counselors Association.

Yeah, I don't wanna leave that off, so congratulations on that.

Chris Jones: Thank you very much. That's funny. I forgot all about that, but yes I was named that, that was, that was quite the honor because when I received that award, it was my director of counseling that was saying all, you know, you get these awards and they say all these things about you.

And I think it was my mother, it was a virtual event and my mother had logged on to watch this virtual event. And I think my sister did too, and I got a text from my sister right afterwards and she said, so how much did you pay that lady?

Lainie Rowell: Generous introduction. Check is in the mail. Yeah. Nope, they did it because you're amazing and you're also humble because you didn't even think to throw it out there.

And as a podcast host, I should have said it first, but at least I recovered. I'm gonna give myself, points for recovery there. So yes, absolutely. So many accolades, so much great work. So let's go at that first question, what does gratitude mean to you? No right or wrong answers, and then we'll get into some of your work.

Chris Jones: Sure. Boy, no right or wrong answers. You really took the pressure off. That's what we should do in all schools. Gratitude to me is it goes beyond the glass is half full type of thing. I, I like to dig a little deeper into, it's not whether the glass is half full. It's not whether the glass is half empty.

It's the idea that I have a glass to put anything in to begin with. So it's a step back to look at the bigger picture. Driven by the question of what do I have rather than what do I want? And so what I mean by that is, you know, quite often we get caught up in, oh, if only I had this, or I wish I had that.

When we do that we skip the idea of what we actually do have as simple as. I wake up in the morning because I had a good night's sleep in a bed, in a warm bed. And I can go downstairs and pour myself a coffee.

And I think of how many people don't even get to start their day that way, and how many people don't get to start their day that way, whether it's because of an economic issue, whether it's because of a health issue you know, the idea that I can. I can lay my head down at night in comfort, get a good night's sleep, and get up in the morning to repeat and to take another run at it for another day, is what I see as gratitude.

Lainie Rowell: I love that idea of stepping back at the bigger picture and when you are describing what it means to you, you're talking in a way that I think is so essential where you're really thinking about very specific examples of things, not so general, like, I'm grateful for my health. You're thinking about very, very specific things and I think that if I, if I understood you correctly, you're getting down to like the very, very basics in very specific ways.

Chris Jones: 100%. And you know, that wasn't something I always did. That became an acquired thing because I did a gratitude exercise each night and each morning. So I would try to come up with three to five things I was grateful for every single morning. And at first, you know, like the first morning you're like, yeah, I'm grateful, like you said, for my health.

I'm grateful cuz it's a nice day out and you know, I'm grateful for whatever. And then the next morning you wake up and you kind of do the same thing. You dance around it, but then you start to run out of things because you don't wanna keep repeating 'em or else they have less meaning. And so what do you do on the day that you get up and you have a cold and it's, you know, it's four degrees out and there's knee deep snow on the ground that you gotta go outside and shovel, shovel before you go to work.

So you really have to get specific about those things. So it's that challenge each day that made me look more. I was gonna say specificity, but I don't even know if that's the right word. You were talking about quintessential before. But to look at more specific things. And when you do that, I think it really helps you embrace gratitude to a point where it almost becomes second nature in the bigger picture, daily operations of your life.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, I like the way Dr. Robert Emmons describes it. He goes, you can feel Gratitude. It's this feeling that you're having, but emotions are fleeting versus I am a grateful person. So there's, I feel grateful versus I am a grateful person. And so I think what I hear you saying is that through these practices and over time, you have moved into being, I am a grateful person.

Chris Jones: Yes. And I'm glad you made that distinction. I think that's an important distinction and it's, it's not something that you start to feel that way and you're there no more work. It's something that you need to continually remind yourself of. And if you truly are to become a grateful person, I think there's a lot of work on the backend that you have to identify specifically what you're grateful for, because.

It's almost like a boomerang. So you start off big, you get specific to make sure that you're actually becoming that grateful person, and once you become that grateful person, it's like a world opens up where it's very hard not to be grateful for just about everything. So it almost goes back out to that big picture once you get it tight again.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, . That's a great description. I wanna make sure we get a chance to spend a good amount of time talking about your book. And by the way, I know I said the title Seeing to Lead, but the S.E.E. Is all capitals.

Can you tell us why?

Chris Jones: Sure. It stands for Support, Engage, and Empower and that in, in and of itself, when you mention the idea of gratitude, a lot of that just has to do with gratitude of the people I serve as their leader. When I'm supporting somebody, I'm grateful that they're there and grateful that they're, they're looking to be supported and looking to improve when I'm engaging them.

Engagement comes from my outwardly showing of my gratitude for them, and then because it's about value added. And then the empowerment part. I'm grateful that they've taken a step forward into a role of leadership where now they're branching out on their own, and I'm grateful that they're doing that because then I don't need to look at minuscule things based on trust and the, the understanding that they're there.

Lainie Rowell: Beautiful. Tell us how did you come to write this book? Like what was the journey? How did you come to, to get this framework that you wanted to put out there and share with the world.

Chris Jones: Yeah. It's it, and it, it definitely, it's a framework because it's a, it's built like a flywheel. And the whole idea of the framework is to get that flywheel spinning as fast as possible on its own. So the idea is, and I'm gonna say something that I get so many crazy looks from people when I'm sitting around in a conference.

Lainie Rowell: You've got my attention. I cannot wait. Go

Chris Jones: Lay that one out, Chris. I'm a teacher-centered principal. I'm not a student-centered principal. I'm a teacher-centered principal, and people look at me and it's almost like, oh dear, you can't say that as a principal, you need to be student-centered. Well, I. I look at where my leverage point comes from, where I can get the most leverage, and what's that big domino I can push over.

Now, if I can engage teachers and empower them in their classrooms to where they like coming to work. They're not ruining their whole Sunday afternoon because it's one o'clock and they're thinking about work the next day, but Sunday evening, they're like, oh yeah, I work tomorrow.

If I get teachers who are passionate about what they're doing in front of students and they're supported and they're engaged in the process, there's no way the students don't benefit much more on a larger scale than I could ever do on my own. So the teachers are really the center of my focus. Obviously student achievement, student environment, things like that are important, but I gain in that by taking care of the teachers.

The process was, and I lay this out in the book as for the longest time I sat in school, I did not have a great school experience and I sat in school with a chip on my shoulder thinking there's gotta be a better way to do this. Which then eventually, after iteration, after iteration, after iteration, led to my personal mission.

My why, if you wanna call it that, if you wanna use that word, but it's to make a better educational experience for everyone involved by being purposeful, acting with integrity and building character. And so that's, that's why my weekly videos are about that. But the book really, I came to realize somewhere in my educational career, and I wish I could remember where that I was blaming the wrong people.

I was blaming the teachers for the bad experience until I realized that teachers were acting in the box, that they were kept in by strict rules and not being supported, rather having expectations. And not receiving any help or engagement with those expectations. They didn't have a voice or anything like that they were just told to do.

And so of course, they stayed within their box. They didn't branch out, which led to a very disengaged student by the name of Chris Jones. And so as I started to look at it, I first gave a presentation on this. I, I can't remember what year, but I gave a presentation on it. At N A S S P, their national conference when I was playing with this and putting it around and and talked about supporting, engaging and empowering staff.

And then as I was writing these things down and putting the presentation together, I noticed I had three chunks that I could use. And that's what the book ended up being. I, I worked through the support piece and to help people with that I put in the strategies I use, I put in reflection points in the book.

It's not just a read through in you're done book or read through and highlight. Obviously if you wanna highlight, great. But it gives you strategies that you can do. It gives you questions to answer, and then it gives you the strategies I use in the different areas. And I do the same for the Engage and the Empower piece.

I really noticed it because in those weekly videos, which is why I mentioned 'em earlier, I started talking about these things and I started talking about how to support people better, how to engage people better, and how to empower them better. And then it just, I put the pen to paper. And ended up getting a book deal and writing a book.

Lainie Rowell: I wanna clarify something because here's what I heard. I heard you say it's not that student-centered isn't something that you believe in...

Chris Jones: Correct.

Lainie Rowell: You believe in student-centered. But if I'm understanding you, you are saying, I know that my role as an administrator is to be teacher-centered.

Is that fair to say?

Chris Jones: That's accurate. That's a hundred percent accurate. See, the student-centered, that's the teachers. The teachers are student-centered. I expect every single one of my teachers to be student-centered. They are part of the larger culture and organization. Yes. But I almost view it as if you keep going up steps, the teachers are my students.

So I need to be teacher-centered.

Lainie Rowell: Well, I think this is something that anyone who's considering leaving the classroom needs to go in with full awareness that when you step out of being rostered kids, being their teacher, your direct impact is not likely going to be the student. It will most likely be the adults and their direct impact will be the students.

I think that's something that can be quite jarring at first when people move out of the classroom into whether it's a instructional coaching position administrative position, whatever it is, you need to understand that your direct impact, most likely. I don't wanna speak in absolutes cuz there are other positions out there that I may not know about, but most of the positions I see where people step out of the classroom, their direct impact has to do with adults.

Chris Jones: Correct. That's your direct impact. If you want to impact students, you have to impact the adults because you're talking adults that depending on what school you're in, have anywhere from 20 to 30 kids in their classroom. If you're in a high school, let's say average 25 kids in their classroom, five or six periods a day, So think of that number of students compared to how many I can meet with in the morning to see how school's going.

I can schedule meetings with, I can never meet anywhere near that many students. And so if I want to have the largest impact, I have to impact those that I can get to a position where they're leading on their own, where they're empowered, they're fully engaged in the vision of the school and making it really happen for the students.

Lainie Rowell: It's an equally important thing, but it's a shift because like you said, it doesn't mean that there's no direct impact on students. You're still doing things that impact the climate, the culture on the campus, all of those things. But it is, you now need to pay attention to those adults who ultimately are gonna have the most contact with those kids.

Chris Jones: Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm, I'm involved with the kids. All the, I look, you wanna talk about Gratitude? That's one of the things that I'm, I'm most grateful for is the ability to interact with students when I want to interact with students. Yeah. By going into classrooms. I, I'm in classrooms all the time. And I have a feedback system with that, that I, I cover in the book, but the better idea of that is to be able to interact with the students. Like I'm out at arrival every morning for bus duty and we've got the music blaring and I'm out there greeting all the students that get dropped off and get dropped off with the bus. The best part about that is I'm out there with my assistant superintendent.

My assistant superintendent comes out and we play music and talk and we were gonna do a presentation on it called B D P D, Bus Duty Professional Development cuz we solve the problems of the world while we're standing out there. But Interacting with the kids, having fun with the kids. And then on Wednesdays, I do welcome sign Wednesdays with my positive affirmation signs that we take pictures.

And so, you know, when I, when I walk around the school and people know me or, or they're saying hi to me without being prompted or anything like that in the hallways, or, Hey, Dr. Jones, you know, or call me over to their lunch tables when I'm in the cafeteria. That's, that's what it's about. That's, that's what I'm grateful for, is the ability to walk around and do that.

Lainie Rowell: I would describe what you are describing as a form of temptation bundling. Are you familiar with this idea?

Chris Jones: No.

Lainie Rowell: So the idea of temptation bundling is to take one thing that you need to do, but maybe are not super excited about, and you bundle it with something that you cannot wait to do. So what I heard was, Bus duty pd, BDPD.

Right? So you need to be out there for security's sake. And it's not that you don't want that, but it's just like, bus duty on its own is not going to get you out of bed. But the fact that you get to have, these conversations that are your professional learning with your assistant sup, like that's amazing.

That's temptation bundling to me. You've found a way to combine the two things, you know, one that needs to happen with one thing, you can't wait to happen.

Chris Jones: Yeah, no, that's excellent. I had never heard of that before. And it's funny because you say that about B D P D and it, as we get close to the year, people will drive by and parents will roll down their windows and bus drivers were, they're like, you're almost there.

Cuz we stand out there in rain, snow, like we're a mess half the year. And it's funny cuz I'll be coming into work and I'm blah another workday, you know? Okay. It's a job and I don't not like my job. I love my job as a principal, but one of those days, it's just a blah day man, I'll get to bus duty and saying hi to the kids and good morning to the kids and all that, and listen to the music and, and I'm in such a good mood to start the day.

Lainie Rowell: I think that's such a great strategy and for principals in general, you know, it's, it's hard. There's sometimes you have to go into the office and close the door and do the budget stuff, do the compliance stuff that is just a part of the job that you're not super psyched about, but, It has to happen.

And when you can combine these things where you're visible, you're out there supporting the kids, keeping them safe, and you're getting to interact with your peers, that's, that's a, that's a win-win. I will say that my children, the elementary school that my kids go to, that principal is out there every morning.

As a parent, it brings me so much peace and joy. I see her, she's here making sure everyone's safe. I know mentally, I know intellectually, I know that that's what a principal does is one of their millions of jobs. But just to have that visibility of her, like she's on campus, she's keeping them safe.

It means a lot. She's greeting them. It's like she's loving it. I'm loving it. The kids are loving it. And we have good weather here in Southern California, so that's, that's a bonus for her and for any of the principals who are in this area. But the fact that you're, you're doing it Rain, sleeter, snow, like the, the mail carriers. Thank you.

Chris Jones: Yeah, no, it is, it is funny. One of the funniest things that happened is I pulled up and my assistant suit was out there first. He had taken his shoes off and he had his pants rolled up around his knees. He looked like Huck Finn because it was raining so bad. He put his shoes off the side.

You know, when you talk about gratitude, it's, it's being grateful for every aspect of life. Not just the positives, but you know, what, what positives are within the negatives that are occurring.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. And that negativity bias is, is hard to overcome. And I mean, even you and I were chatting before and I was like, I've been knocked down a few things today.

It's been a little bit of a rough day, some bad news after bad news. But at the end I can take a deep breath and go, you know what? There is a lot of really good going on so I can shift even when I get bogged down a little bit. It's for me, having a grateful disposition has helped me shift out of it a lot faster.

Chris Jones: You're right though it is difficult cuz that negativity creeps in. My, my wife and I'll talk about our two boys and we are just so blessed with our two boys. We're so pleased with the young men that they're turning into that, but hey, they're 16 and 14, so it's almost guaranteed they're gonna try to do stupid things from time to time.

And so they'll do something that has us scratching our head or that get us a little miffed to put it politely and we'll look at each other afterwards, after talking to the boys wherever they go. You know, in the big scheme of things really just let 'em have this one, because, you know, they can do their little consequence, but we are so lucky to have the boys that we have.

So it's, it's that big. It's, again, it's like I said at the beginning of that stepping back big picture.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I have a chant I do now, now that I have a tween, and it's still developing a prefrontal cortex, still developing a prefrontal cortex, still developing a prefrontal cortex.

They're still going. There is still more work to be done and I am here for it. Ill support them. Ill not take things personally that have absolutely nothing to do with me. It's a reminder. I try and give myself.

Chris Jones: It's not their fault. It's not their fault.

Lainie Rowell: That's the more condensed version of the chant. Yes. Alright, my friend, I need to honor your time. I wanna make sure and give you an opportunity to give a shout out, and then I'm gonna ask you to share how people can get in touch with you. But let's first go ahead and who would you like to give a shout out to?

Chris Jones: First I'll do the professional one because this is usually a shout out that I give, but there is a fantastic man by the name of Danny Bauer from Better Leaders, Better Schools that I started with him and his masterminds before masterminds were the, were the, the key thing to do in 2017.

And I would, boy, looking at myself in 2017 and the leader I was worlds away from where I am now. I wouldn't be the leader or the person I am right now without his guidance and his mentorship. So that's, if you ever get a chance to look him up and do any work with him, just Yes, a hundred percent, yes.

Lainie Rowell: Full endorsement, Gratitude and endorsement.

Chris Jones: Yes. Gratitude and endorsement. He just a, just everything he's done for me and, and he really is a, a fantastic example of continuing to evolve and improve himself by working on himself. While he helps others and serves others. So the personal one, I, I have to give a shout out to my wife.

My wife is a seventh and eighth grade teacher. Something that I look at her and I say, you are a warrior. I'd never be able to do that. But she teaches English and she's too shy to say it, but she just received an award for teaching for her work with inclusion and making sure that all students have an equal opportunity to learn and are successful at doing it. And it's the first time that award was ever given to a middle school or high school teacher, cuz they're a junior senior. Really proud of her. Her name is Mary Ilo Jones.

Lainie Rowell: Thank you, Mary, for your work and for everything you're doing and happy that your husband is willing to brag for you because that is something worthy of bragging about.

Chris Jones: Oh, absolutely. She really is and I know, yes, I'm completely objective. She really is lights out in the classroom.

I mean, she gets up on desks and sings and all kinds of things. Teaches the kids songs to learn by always moving around the room just full of energy. I get tired watching her, but she just really does a fantastic job and, and the kids let her know it too. So it's excellent.

Lainie Rowell: Amazing. And I will admit, I was like, you, Chris, I was not what they would call a star student. I was maybe also there being like, when is this gonna be over? And sounds like I would've really enjoyed being in your wife's class.

My friend. I wanna make sure people know how to reach out to you. So where do you like to hang out on the line? On the line? Where do you like to hang out online?

Where, where's the best way for people to connect with?

Chris Jones: You know, probably probably Twitter. I play with Insta and all those others, but I'm, I'm, and I do Facebook, but Twitter's really easy to get ahold of me. It's @DrCSJones. And I'm pretty much @DrCSJones everywhere. If people want to reach out to me via email, it's drchrissj@gmail.com and if they want to go to my website, it's teamjonesedu.com.

Lainie Rowell: Amazing. I'm gonna put all of that linked in the show notes, so you've got to hear it. My friends who are listening, and if you look in the show notes where I put lots of gems you'll just be able to touch or click on it. So please be sure to connect with Dr. Jones. Be sure to listen to his podcast, grab a copy of his book.

He's putting really, really great things out there. He also shares great things on social media, so make sure to follow him there so you can catch all the goodness like I do. All right.

Chris Jones: Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to have me on your show. I could talk to you forever, so thank you for being the one bold enough to say, Hey, we've gotta wrap this up.

Lainie Rowell: It's only to honor your time because I could talk to you forever as well, but I know that even though you're on summer break and things are slightly slower that you've got a million things to do.

Friends, thank you for listening and don't forget to check out Dr. Jones all on the web, all over the places. He's got great stuff.

All right, my friends. Thank you for listening.

Bonus Episode - Behind the Scenes of Bold Gratitude with Guest Allyson Liu

Shownotes:

Get ready for an electrifying episode as I chat with the fabulous Allyson Liu. We discuss our game-changing creation: "Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and By You." Friends, this isn't your average journal. It's an interactive, vibrant, and downright fun experience that breaks free from the confines of traditional journaling. With "Bold Gratitude," you're in control—choose your own adventure and embark on a gratitude journey that's as unique as you are. It's time to get bold and embrace the joy of gratitude like never before!

About Our Guest:

Allyson Liu is a creative talent who discovered her passion for design early on. She has extensive experience in industries such as publishing and advertising. She also founded How Inviting, a line of custom stationery, which gained national attention when it was featured on NBC’s Today Show. Now, Allyson helps clients achieve their marketing goals through her company Allyson Liu, Marketing + Creative, where she brings a unique and inspired approach to branding.

Website: ⁠AllysonLiu.com⁠

Facebook: ⁠@allysonliucreative⁠

Instagram: ⁠@allysonliucreative⁠

About Lainie:

Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Evolving Learner⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and a contributing author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Because of a Teacher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Her latest book, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Evolving with Gratitude⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linktr.ee/lainierowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Twitter - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@LainieRowell ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Instagram - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@LainieRowell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Evolving with Gratitude, the book, is now available! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Purchase here!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

You can also get bulk orders for your staff (10 copies or more) at a discounted price! Just fill out the form linked below and someone will get back to you ASAP! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscount⁠⁠⁠

Transcript:

Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Hello friends. We have a very special episode today. Today we have Allyson Liu. Hello Allyson.

Allyson Liu: Hello Lainie. How are you?

Lainie Rowell: I'm good. See, we're pretending like we're just now talking for the first time, even though we've been talking for like an hour so far. Friends, here's why this is a super special episode, and that is Allyson is a lifelong best friend and the partner in Bold Gratitude. Our journal that's coming out. I'm so excited. Actually by the time people are listening to this, the journal will be out.

Allyson Liu: That is really exciting.

Lainie Rowell: I cannot wait. Okay. Let me give a proper introduction to my bestie. I'm gonna get real professional here. Are you ready, Allyson?

Allyson Liu: Let's keep it real Fun- Lainie.

Lainie Rowell: Oh, okay. That's fine. So we're gonna talk about Fun Lainie too, in case the listeners are wondering what the heck that means.

Okay. Let me get legit first. Allyson Liu is a creative talent who discovered her passion for design early on. It's really hard for me to do this with a straight face, but you are a big deal. So I wanna make sure and convey that because you've got experience in publishing advertising.

You're the founder of How Inviting and you have been nationally recognized on NBC's Today Show for your design work. And I think that's a pretty big deal.

Allyson Liu: Well, thanks.

Lainie Rowell: So I'm just saying it how it is. What do you wanna add? What do you wanna tell people about you that I did not cover in that semi-professional intro?

Allyson Liu: Well, I, I guess I would say that one of my biggest passions is helping other female entrepreneurs launch their businesses. So I love to work with other women who, whether they be moms who are trying to, you know, redefine what career looks like in their family and find that work life balance. I love to help support them in those goals, whether it's naming their businesses or creating their logos, helping them with their packaging, website, just branding in general.

But that's really where I feel like I make the most rewarding personal impact in helping other women who are in similar situations that I am with young families get back into the workforce and be proud of what they do.

Lainie Rowell: Well, speaking of impact, you've had a tremendous impact on my life personally as a bestie, but also professionally, in fact. I did put this in the acknowledgements of Evolving Learner, but I wanna say it here.

We were sitting in a Pei Wei in Tustin, and I was explaining to you this idea I had about professional learning and how I learned from kids and peers and the world. And you, without even taking a beat, you're like, oh, well it sounds like you're an Evolving Learner. And I was like, yes, that's it. And that ended up being the title of the keynote that I did at BLC.

And then that became the title of the book that I wrote with Kristy Andre and Lauren Steinman. Yes. So yes. And so basically, you have had a huge impact on everything that I have put out into the world as far as books. And you've helped me with so many things along the way. So I'll, I'll start to get like all emotional if I, if I lean into it too much.

But I just wanna put that out there because it was so easy to say, I need to do this next project with Allyson and one of my favorite things, we just celebrated the one year of Evolving with Gratitude, which you designed the cover of.

Allyson Liu: That's right.

Lainie Rowell: And I don't know if you saw this, but yesterday on Facebook I said, Hey, here's the cover for Bold Gratitude.

You might recognize Allyson's name because she did the cover of Evolving with Gratitude, and someone wrote in the comments. I love everything she does.

Allyson Liu: Aw. It's like, I did not see that, but that makes me feel really good.

Lainie Rowell: I know. I was like, oh my gosh, that makes me so happy. And I know people who have actually reached out to me and said will she design my book cover?

And I know that people have already reached out to you to help with their branding educators and so yes, I love that.

Allyson Liu: Yeah. There's been a lot of great networking that has come through all of this. But I remember when we were talking about the cover of Evolving with Gratitude and you had this little seed that you, you, you planted saying, wouldn't it be great if we had a little spinoff, a little, a little baby come off of this book. So it's so exciting that we were able to to make this happen.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, let's take people through that. Let's talk a little bit about this, because people not knowing the backstory, which we're about to share, might be like, wow, Evolving with Gratitude came out June, 2022 and a year later.

We're having the Bold Gratitude Journal come out, like, how did that happen so quickly? But as you just pointed out, this has actually been in the works for a while. For me, I dared not say it out loud for a while except to you because I was like, I don't know are people gonna get excited about this?

And then as soon as I started letting it out of the bag, people were excited. So let's, let's talk a little bit about the origin story of this. Yes, we talked about it being like from the beginning with Evolving with Gratitude, but how did this actually come into to being from your perspective, and then I can share some of my perspective, but...

Allyson Liu: Well, I think when we really got serious about it was when we took over some property at Starbucks with a lot of research in other books and journals that are out there and where we really kind of zoned in on finding that missing element that we weren't really seeing in some of the journals that are out there currently. So when we honed in on what we felt like could be really impactful, which was to go after, you know a wider demographic. Particularly with tweens and above.

Yeah. And that was something that I think we, we saw was, was lacking.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. And I, I just wanna say you know we say on the cover, so it's Bold Gratitude: The Journal Design for You and By You. And I feel like from the very beginning that this was gonna be universally designed, as interactive as possible, so we wanted to make it as accessible as possible, but we also, and you really brought this out in me wanted to make it creative and really to inspire creativity and to also have this like upbeat, casual, you call it Fun- Lainie which we, we were not seeing in some of the other journals.

Allyson Liu: Correct. And me being a creative writing my thoughts and feelings won't come as naturally as it will to somebody like you. And so when I see the journals that are relying all about writing instead of all the different other ways you can express what your feelings are, which, you know for me it's obviously with art and design, I felt like it was a really good direction to go where we are hitting more audiences because we make this journal, really interactive in a way that they can take on an assignment or skip over a chapter or go backwards. If I'm having a day where I do wanna write, there are many options for me to do that.

But if I have a day where I just wanna doodle or sketch or you know meditate or whatever, there are so many different paths you can take through this journal and for somebody like me that is way more appealing than a journal that is strictly for journaling in its traditional sense of writing.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah, and what I love is, I think we came up with a nice balance of, we've got fill in the blanks in there. Just give you a little bit of inspiration and you don't have to go full on writing essays or anything like that. You can just fill in the blanks and get to process through all those feelings, get that experience. We've got the activities that are really about creativity and bringing in kind of that artistic, which if that means stick figures to you, that's totally fine.

You don't have to be an artist for that. We've got some quotes. One of my favorite things that kind of came from you and I going back and forth on, well, how much space do we give for a journal prompt is, well, why would we dictate that at all? And one of my favorite things is that we have at the end of each section, there's three sections.

Gratitude for Happiness, Gratitude with your Peeps, and Gratitude with the World. At the end of each section, we've got the page of prompts that you can either cut out and glue on the pages that follow, that are wide open. Or you can rewrite them if, you know, cutting or tearing in your journal is, you know, non-starter for you.

Allyson Liu: Right.

Lainie Rowell: But that was, that was one of my favorite things that came from, and that was a hundred percent a reflection of this being a partnership where I would say something to you and you'd be like, well, I don't know about that. And vice versa. Right. And so definitely that was...

Allyson Liu: It was back and forth.

Lainie Rowell: It was. It was. And the practices are pulled from Evolving with Gratitude and things that I've done over the years. But you contributed practices too. Yeah. And then the design is a, you know, that is led by you. And then sometimes I'd be like, Ooh, can we do this? I mean, I have no design skills, but it was...

Allyson Liu: You had a lot of design ideas and then back to your point, if you're not artistic, we've got the coloring book page, we've got doodles that you could just fill in. So you don't have to have an artistic side either to really enjoy the different options that the journal has for you.

And then even the origami, you know, that's also kind of a neat craft that I think a lot of people are interested in learning how and then it serves you well throughout the journal because then you can use your bookmark.

Lainie Rowell: So the origami bookmark a hundred percent your idea. And I loved it. And I will say that that was one of the first suggestions that you made that made me go wider on what this journal could be.

And realizing we have a lot of opportunity to not only leverage what we give them on paper, but have them bring things outside in, right? So it's like go get a piece of paper. It can be patterned, it could be blank, it could be colored paper, whatever it is. And then we give the directions for the origami bookmark.

Which is so brilliant because we clearly state you don't have to go in order, you can hop around, right? And you could potentially create multiple of them and put them in different spaces for like, okay there's a day where I wanna do a fill in the blank.

I'll do this. If there's a day I want more open-ended, I'll do this. Right. There's a day I wanna be more creative and artistic, I'll do this, but. I just am so happy with how it turned out, and I really cannot wait for people to get it.

Allyson Liu: I really cannot wait for my children to get it.

Lainie Rowell: Awww.

Allyson Liu: You know, it's just nice to have something that is age appropriate that they can participate in too.

Even though they're younger than the tween, this is still something that with my assistance that they would be able to work through and to participate in, so, I see this being something that families can do together. I see it being something that adults would love to do just because it is so interactive and different than a typical journal.

But I also think it's a really great thing for families to do together.

Lainie Rowell: I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm excited for that too. And my kids have been testing, they're my focus group. So when people see some of the prompts that are in there, know that those made it past two rounds of a child and a tween And they had to rate them and if it got the veto it definitely wasn't making it.

Yeah. Most of them got the thumbs up from both.

Allyson Liu: Right. And that means that we're speaking to a broader audience. And if our kids understand and can do this journal, then it's really open to all ages, which is exciting and different.

Lainie Rowell: When we first started, and I still use this language "for anyone 10 to 110 and then some", because like you said, if it's a family doing it, you can go much younger.

Mm-hmm. And if you can live past 110, I think you should still do some gratitude journaling. So that too. Right?

Allyson Liu: Agreed. You definitely should be doing some gratitude journaling. You have a lot to be thankful for.

Lainie Rowell: You do. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. So let's continue down this memory lane, can you think about something throughout this process, maybe it was taking over a Starbucks, and by the way, friends, I own pretty much every gratitude journal that's on the market right now, I have an entire bookshelf that is just gratitude journals or anything, gratitude journal, adjacent, even planners, things that we just dumped out on that Starbucks.

I brought a suitcase. It was literally a suitcase full of journals.

Allyson Liu: Yep. It was a carry-on. You know, to be fair.

Lainie Rowell: Exactly. It did not require being checked.

Allyson Liu: No. It was perfect for overhead space.

Lainie Rowell: It would qualify for overhead space, but it was still an entire suitcase of journals. And some of those journals are thin.

And we had to put tables together at the Starbucks. Yep. And then we laid them all out so I'll tell you a little bit about what I loved about that part of the process. It was very organic, very messy, we just went through and one of my favorite things was, there were some journals, which are lovely, but I remember you opening up one of 'em and you're like, oh, that feels like a homework assignment.

Allyson Liu: Homework assignment. Yes.

Lainie Rowell: And I was like, oh, we don't want that. It was like, visually...

Allyson Liu: And that's the creative brain, you know, when, when you see something like that, that it just to me, personally felt very taxing. Overwhelming. I did not feel like I could make it through that, and it had a redundant feel to it, so that also kind of is how we went down the path of combining a lot of different activities.

Lainie Rowell: I've listened to people talk about some of their hesitations in journaling, and one of the things that I've heard multiple people say is they'll get a journal and then they feel like they have to do all the prompts in order.

Allyson Liu: Mm-hmm.

Lainie Rowell: And that feels very restricting because maybe that, that prompt isn't speaking to me today, but they don't necessarily feel like they have permission to hop around. We explicitly say, please hop around if you want to. You don't have to. And then also just some of the feedback I've heard, cuz I was asking a lot of people, do you journal, do you not?

Why or why not? Some people were saying they felt real guilt about not filling up space that was given or not doing enough items or things like that so I, I really am happy with where we landed on, I think it's a good amount of guidance without being overwhelming or too prescriptive.

Allyson Liu: Absolutely and I feel that the same way, you know which has kept me from doing as much journaling as I would like.

My journaling comes in more of a creative field, you know, vision boards and things like that appeal to me personally more. I find that I enjoy doing things like that, the scrap booking aspects versus the writing. Everybody's different and that's what's great about the journal is that we are offering a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

Lainie Rowell: And there's a little bit of stuff at the beginning, if you want, get you in the mindset of like, okay, we're gonna do this.

We're gonna give ourselves a little permission slip, and then we have an intro which has a subheading of, unless you decide to skip it, but I think you'll like it if you give it a try. And then we've got some guided practices. But in these sections, at the end of each, there's a bunch of just somewhat blank pages. I say blank- ish pages cuz you gave them a nice little border that people could decorate if they wanted to. But it's really pretty free, wide open space. And we talked about do we put the dots there? Do we put lines and I'm happy that we just settled on it's free space.

Allyson Liu: Yeah, and you know, also one of the thoughts that had gone by our heads were during the places where we have the quotes. You know, that could be potentially a page where you can scrapbook around that quote on how that quote speaks to you.

So if you're inspired by Oprah's quote, then maybe you can either doodle or you can scrapbook and you can use that page to design how that quote inspires you.

Lainie Rowell: I tell people, I'm somewhat allergic to paper just because I don't like people handing me paper and it's something really important that I'm gonna lose.

But there is something really special about the tactile of a journal. And also I'm a nerd for post-it notes and I can get behind some good stickers and stamps and things like that and I went full out. One of my favorite memories of this process, we made a field trip to The Paper Source.

Allyson Liu: One of my favorite places.

Lainie Rowell: This is not an advertisement. Although Paper Source, if you're listening and you wanna send some, you know...

Allyson Liu: Do you want this wonderful journal?

Lainie Rowell: In your, in your establishment, in your stores.

Allyson Liu: Yeah. I think that would make a lot of sense.

Lainie Rowell: Yeah. Or feel free to just send us a check for the shoutout. Well, either way, whatever you...

Allyson Liu: But we're not being sponsored by Paper Source.

Lainie Rowell: But we're not being sponsored. But that was one of my favorite field trips because I brought supplies home and my kids, it was really interesting to see how one would gravitate towards certain materials and another different materials and me as well.

And so even if you're not an artistic person I found, I think it was like $5 on Amazon. I bought some stencils because I just, I don't consider myself really artsy and so that's why I have you, Al. But the stencils helped me to like make it aesthetically pleasing, which was just kind of a nice calming activity just to sit there and use the stencils and color them in.

And that was just super fun for me too.

Allyson Liu: And a little washi tape goes a long way too.

Lainie Rowell: Oh my gosh. Washi tape is amazing. Mm-hmm. That's a really solid point. We hope that people just have so much fun. Treat it like a scrapbook, obviously it's a journal, but put things in it.

It's not just already what's there, which is, I feel a lot and I think you're gonna love it, but the idea of actually gluing or taping things in, I think is super fun too.

Allyson Liu: Agreed. And another thing that I love about the journal is the back cover because the owner of the journal is the author in our eyes, so I love that we let the author acknowledge themselves on the back cover, which I think is really special too.

Lainie Rowell: And full choice on that. You can just describe yourself in some words. You could tape or glue a selfie on there. You could...

Allyson Liu: do your self portrait.

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely.

Allyson Liu: You could write adjectives about yourself.

Lainie Rowell: A hundred percent. That's one of my favorite things about the journal and I think we, we did a good job of reinforcing that with each other is that we kept saying it's their journal. It's their journal. So when we were asked okay, are you gonna have an acknowledgements? It was like, well, but it's their journal. Right? Right. And so there were times where you and I would get into the habit of doing things that would normally go in a book and we're like, but this is their journal, so we're not gonna take that space. It's theirs. I love it so much. I am super excited to get this into people's hands and if you are listening to this, the journal's available.

We're not gonna put this out there until people can get it and we'll put the link to get it in the show notes. All right, Al, any last thoughts that you wanna share about this wonderful collaboration?

Allyson Liu: Another thing that I love about the journal is we have an area on pages where you can check once you've completed the task.

And so I love that kind of ownership, like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do today to show others that I'm grateful for them. And then I'm gonna come back and I get to check this box when it's complete so that I'm held accountable for the gratitude that I share with my friends that day.

And I think that that's, that's a fun and easy way to use the journal to kind of, remind yourself of things that you could do. Same with cutting things out and posting them around your house to remind you, we've got a lot of those types of activities that are super easy. They don't require any real effort, but they will keep gratitude front in mind throughout your day.

Lainie Rowell: Absolutely, and I'm so glad you mentioned that it's not a huge lift. A lot of these things can be done in five minutes or less.

Allyson Liu: Yep.

Lainie Rowell: I love that you pointed out, we have a Gratitude in Action checkbox on a lot of the pages. If you're like me, lot of joy from checking things off a list like yes I did that.

It's very self-affirming.

Allyson Liu: I am. I am a hundred percent that way.

Lainie Rowell: I know I keep saying this, but I'm just so excited for people to get this and just wanna say one other thing, because I'm flipping through a draft of it that I have. As we're recording this, we're in the very final stages and if you're listening to this, you could buy it right now. But there's so many practices in here, like Dr. Robert A Emmons... There's a noticing the good practice inspired by him. These are not just on a whim we decided to put these things in here. A lot of them are practices that were mentioned in Evolving with Gratitude, but I wasn't able to give a lot of space because in that book I'm talking about the science and I have the stories from the contributors, and I'm trying to be really concise.

And so I really wanted to make this a, you've got the space. This is about you and expressing and experiencing gratitude, so yeah. It's gonna be a good time. I'm looking forward to it and the people who have been sharing on the socials are like, can't wait. Ready to order now.

Allyson Liu: Awesome. I love to hear that.

Lainie Rowell: I know, right? It's so fun. All right, Allyson. I know people are gonna wanna catch up with you and see all the amazing work you're doing, and they might need some help with their own branding, their own content. So, Al, what's the best way for people to reach out to you?

Allyson Liu: My Instagram handle is @AllysonLiuCreative. And my website is AllysonLiu.Com.

Lainie Rowell: I'm gonna put all that in the show notes, my friends, you gotta check her out. She does such great work. I am truly honored to not only call her a bestie, but a partner in this. .

I just wanna take a moment. This journal would not have happened without you. There was no other way this was gonna happen. It, it was something that I had hinted at when Evolving with Gratitude started, but I always knew in my mind that I would not do it without you. This was just something that had to be us together.

And there's so many things that if there was gonna be an acknowledgements, I would go very, very deep into explaining all the things that you did. For example, how long it took just to figure out the fonts. Like, it seems like such a simple thing, but if anyone has done any sort of design work, they know that picking fonts is not. It's not a simple thing.

Allyson Liu: No, but it was super important and I'm really happy with the font selection. I think it speaks to the journal quite well.

Lainie Rowell: I think so too. I absolutely love it and I know that people are gonna love it too. So I hope people will go ahead and click on the links in the show notes to catch up with Allyson on all the spaces. She's one of the hardest working people I know. She wants everyone to be happy with what she does, and I've just never worked with anyone that is so fast at getting things done, but not just fast great stuff. I won't be able to properly gush over you because it's like decades of friendship.

I can't even come to the words. But I just want you to know that I know there was so much heart and soul and creativity that went into this. And I just thank you for that.

Allyson Liu: And I thank you for taking me along on the ride.

Lainie Rowell: Like I said, it wouldn't have happened without you.

All right, friends, I'm gonna put links to all the goodness in the show notes. I hope you grab your copy of Bold Gratitude, the Journal Designed for You and by You with so much love from Allyson and I.

Allyson Liu: Thanks guys.

Lainie Rowell: Thanks for listening.