Shownotes:
đ Here we are at the 100th episode milestone, friends! I'm overjoyed to welcome back George Couros, who kicked off this journey with us as our very first guest. Returning with his boundless energy and profound insights on educational leadership, George and I explore his latest book, What Makes a Great Principal, the transformative power of consistent mentorship, our enduring passion for education, and ways to continuously grow professionally. Whether this is your first episode or you've been with us since that inaugural episode, prepare for a session packed with empowering strategies and inspiring stories. Don't miss this landmark episodeâit's a full-circle moment filled with heart and wisdom!
About Our Guest:
George Couros is a worldwide leader in the area of innovative teaching, learning, and leading, and has a focus on innovation as a human endeavor. Most importantly, he is a proud father and husband.
His belief that meaningful change happens when you first connect to peopleâs hearts, is modeled in his writing and speaking. In his 20-plus years in the field of education, he has worked at all levels of school, from K-12 as a teacher, technology facilitator, and school and district administrator, and is currently an Adjunct Instructor with the Graduate School of Education at the University of Pennsylvania.
George is also the author of the books, â The Innovatorâs Mindset, Innovate Inside the Box, Because of a Teacher, Because of a Teacher 2â , and his latest release, â What Makes a Great Principalâ .
Thrive Global Article:
I recently interviewed George about his health journey for Thrive and you can check out that article here: George Couros on Optimizing Health and Life
Connect with and learn from George Couros:
Website: â â georgecouros.caâ â
X/Twitter: â â @gcourosâ â
Instagram: â â @gcourosâ
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing, focusing on community building, social-emotional learning, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn both a post-graduate credential and a master's degree in education. An international keynote speaker, Lainie has presented in 41 states as well as in dozens of countries across 4 continents. As a consultant, Lainieâs client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at â â â â â â â â â linktr.ee/lainierowellâ â â â â â â â â .
Website - â LainieRowell.comâ
Twitter - â â â â â â â â @LainieRowell â â â â â â â â
Instagram - â â â â â â â â @LainieRowellâ â â â â â â â
Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available â â â â â here!â â â â â â â And now, Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You is available too!
Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.đ
đâĄď¸ â bit.ly/ewgbulkdiscountâ
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Transcript:
Lainie Rowell: All right, friends. I have a real treat for you today. The return of the George Couros. Hi, George.
George Couros: Let's go. I am so pumped. I'm number one, number 100. And so, I don't know, maybe 1, 000, right? Is that what's happening?
Lainie Rowell: No, we're gonna, we're gonna get you back before then.
George Couros: I don't know.
Lainie Rowell: I should have probably made it like every 10 episodes.
So you could have been 10, 20, 30, 40. But I have been anticipating and we have been plotting this for a very long time. I guess I'm the plotter. You're just, you're just kind and giving me your time. But I have been so excited to have you as episode 100. You are episode number one. Like you said, you are still the most listened to episode of all time.
George Couros: Really? Well, it's probably just because I'm, like, ahead of everyone.
Lainie Rowell: Nope, nope. I, it's it's, it's a, it's a good, steady lead. Like, you're
George Couros: Okay, let's, let's, let's, let's, first of all, before we kind of get into any of this stuff, Like, first of all, congratulations on doing this because to actually get to a hundred podcasts means you have to have some consistency and a lot of people like get excited about this stuff.
They do it and then they quit right away. And I think that's like a huge issue in a lot of the stuff we do. Like, think about education. A lot of school districts. You know like, ooh we're like so into this, and then, it's like, by the end of the episode they're like, nah, we're doing a new thing. And then it's like, oh why are people so frustrated.
So good for you, because I think that consistency and you know, putting yourself out there, having guests, inviting people, elevating them including myself. is a, is a huge kudos to you. So I, I am honored to have been on here twice, right? I'm the only person who's been on twice too, right? That, you were the first
Lainie Rowell: person, okay, let's be clear.
You're the first person I asked to return, but I saved you for the spot 100.
George Couros: I gotcha. Okay. Is
Lainie Rowell: that fair? It's not fair.
George Couros: Whatever.
Lainie Rowell: And I also.
George Couros: I'm honored, I'm honored. I'm very proud of you for. All you put out there too.
Lainie Rowell: Thank you. Well, and you are such an amazing, not only one of my besties, but such an amazing mentor.
You're so patient and so kind and you lift so many people up and even before we hit record, you were coaching me up on some things that I could do and I really appreciate it because I listen to everything you say and I do my best to execute on it because it's brilliant advice. I don't always execute as good as I could but I'm trying and so thank you for that.
George Couros: I don't, I don't, this is the thing about me and people know this, who are, I don't waste my time on people who don't like listen to my advice. Right. So like, if you're, if I know you'll never listen to it, I just, I don't even bother and I know, and that's the thing. Right. So I know you probably heard me tell the story before I ref basketball.
I know people are like, Oh, he's already talking basketball, but yeah,
Lainie Rowell: I'm here for it,
George Couros: that's what happens. So when I ref basketball like, and I got to a very high level and this was something I was considering doing professionally, it was really important to me. The thing that was really interesting is that you'd ref a half and there'd be, you know, a high level games and there'd be an evaluator sitting in the stands.
And then the evaluator, you'd go in at halftime and they would rip you apart. There's no positive sandwiches because, because there's no time, right? They got to tell you what you're doing wrong because you got 10 minutes. So they're like, don't do this. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. And the referees that always do the best in the sport were the ones who took the advice and tried it in the second half. And so if you're like I need to think about it and all this other stuff, like you're, you're done. You're, you're out. Right. So, and it doesn't mean that you always took it and you kept it forever, but at least they saw you are giving an effort to get better.
That's what matters, that you're open to the advice. You're open to trying new things. And so I always think about that because that was something I look forward as a principal, I look forward when I worked in central office. Who are those people that were open to challenge, to, you know, learning new things.
And I try to model this myself, like I am constantly tweaking stuff that I'm doing. I am in pursuit of the best habits in the world. And I will, I will take what works, I will get rid of what doesn't. But I'm always trying to learn. I'm always trying to get better with this stuff. So, you know, I, I don't ask anyone to do anything I'm not willing to do myself and you are so willing to try these new things.
So I'm very, that's why I'm very proud of you is that I know you don't listen to my advice a hundred percent and that's okay, but you, you're a good 90 something. Right. But it doesn't mean you stick with it. It doesn't mean you stick with it, but I know you'll try. You'll try. Cause you want to get better just like I do.
Right.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah. Well, in I love that example you're giving of the evaluator giving halftime advice and the people who improved the best were the ones who were implementing it in second half. And I think that's relevant to pretty much any sort of improvement that you want to do. I mean, we know this for professional learning.
If you don't implement it right away, it's never going to happen, right? That's just, that's gone. That's gone.
George Couros: It is. And it's totally, and it's actually one of the things I really encouraged, I was in Comac in New York, it's a school district in Long Island, and what was, one of the things that I thought was really powerful is they had students there, something I worked with them, said like, hey, make sure you have students on the PD day.
And what I love about it is that when the kids are hearing what the, what the staff is learning, there's more of an accountability. Cause they're like, are you going to do any of that stuff? Like, are you just like, what are you doing? Right. And I think that there's some power in that when you have students involved in professional learning, you're getting their feedback.
And as someone who comes in to speak to districts, the first people I go to after like, I'm done talking is, is the students. I'm like, what'd you think? What, like, what did you like? What didn't you like? Because that's who I'm ultimately trying to serve, right? I'm not like, I, I always talk about the importance of student voice, but actually it's not like I just want to hear it.
I want to build upon it and try to get better and like understand it. So that's something I think is really important because a lot of times we walk into these professional learning sessions and we don't do anything with it. And one of the things I've talked about quite a bit lately, you know, this whole notion, I, I don't think I've been to a bad PD in 15 years.
And it's not saying the presenter has been bad or you know, the content's not great because I don't depend on someone else making my learning happening for me. I say, okay, what am I getting from this? What am I going to take out of this? How will I use this? And so I always own it and I'm never dependent upon that.
And I think that's a really important aspect is there's a really great Stephen Downs quote. I cannot remember. It's like like basically we have to understand that learning is not something provided for us, but it's basically something we create ourselves. And that's, I've really embraced that and you do this too.
I do this. You don't take everything I say a hundred percent, you make it your own, but you still try in some way. And I think that's what matters. It's not like just listen blindly to people and do whatever they say. But it's like, Hey, like what, what works there? What doesn't, what works for you? How do you make that your own?
That's, that's, I think is really important.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, it's about, okay, well, here's what you're trying to accomplish. Here are some things that you could do, but make it your own. And I really appreciate, like, even in the conversation we had before we hit record, you were giving me some advice, and you were giving me the room to make it my own.
Like, it doesn't have to be exactly how you've done it or someone else has done it, but these are principles of what's going to give you the best outcome, if you will?
George Couros: Hey, I'll tell you this straight up. This is going to sound very arrogant. I am 100 percent the best version of George Couros.
Nobody can be George Couros like George Couros can be George Couros, right? And so, if you try just to replicate exactly what I'm doing, and you try to be me, I'm going to always be better at you than that. But if you actually focus on what is, what's really Lainie about this, that's where that power comes in.
I think that sometimes we just try to like, emulate other people, and then we lose ourselves in the process. Right? I'm not saying George is the best person. I feel like this is a Seinfeld episode where I'm referring to myself in the third person, right? I'm not saying George is the best. I'm saying I'm the best George Couros.
That's it. Because I'm like, I'm authentically me. I stick to what I believe in, what matters to me and what are my strengths? How do I bring that out? And so that's why that's so important is that if you emulate everything I would do, you're trying to be me and I'm always gonna be a better me than you could be me. You gotta be you, right?
Lainie Rowell: Right, I know exactly what you're saying. And it's not that I want to be just like George, although that sounds like a pretty amazing deal. But what I hear you saying, and what I kind of took away from our conversation earlier is that personal responsibility, that personal accountability, like do things that are going to serve others well, do it to the best of your ability, and that will help, everyone.
George Couros: 100%. That's 100%.
Lainie Rowell: Well, speaking of your wisdom, I want to make sure we have ample time to talk about your new book baby and so would you please be so kind to tell us what we get to experience, and I feel very spoiled because I've got an advanced copy, so I've already read the masterpiece. And so, tell us about the new book.
George Couros: Well, actually with Allyson Apsey, who is someone I, I really appreciate and love. She has a great writing style. We actually co wrote a book called What Makes a Good Principal. It should be available now. I don't know when this is, unless you're live streaming this, and it's not available now. But if you're giving it a day or two, it should be available.
And so Allyson we, I, it's always kind of weird. Cause like I say, like her and I coauthored it, but we also had 15 contributors. And I think what really makes this book special is Allyson and I kind of tell stories, do the research on like, what are the five pillars of what makes a really great principal?
But we also have former principals or current principals talking about how they met those pillars. What that looks like, stories about it, but this is the most important element. We also have teachers and students saying like, I have this great principal. And here's how they did that for me.
Cause we always say like, Oh, we need to, you know, listen to those we serve, except for like, no, we like, maybe we never actually do. And so it's kind of like, yeah. So, if you are a principal, aspiring principal, and what was really cool about the book is I didn't write it cause I'm like, Oh, I'm the best principal and like, I'm going to share my wisdom is like, I had such a great principal who changed my life.
And really wrote that to honor her and what I learned from her. And I always say like, if I could have 10 percent of the impact that Kelly Wilkins, that person, who kind of inspired the book had, I would consider myself extremely successful. She is an incredible person and. Just totally changed not only my professional life, but my personal life as well.
I can say that cause , she took me from like someone who was like, I'm done. I hate education to like, I cannot imagine doing anything else. So I think that that was really important in reading the stories from the teachers and the students. I'm sitting here, writing this book and going, Oh, I wish I would have known this.
Like, there's so many things that I was like, This is such a good insight and I'm so glad we put the book together this way where we had teacher voice talking about what makes a great principal. And there was actually one criteria for the people who wrote in the book. There was one question Allyson and I would ask, Hey, have you ever had a great principal?
And if they said no, that's it, they're out. Like, they had to have someone who they considered a great principal. They cannot like, no, I have someone who's alright.
Lainie Rowell: No, and it comes through and actually, my story in Because of a Teacher was about a great principal that I had and they're totally transformative.
They're life changing. I'm on a completely different path in my life because of Monique, who was a principal that I wrote about because of a teacher, and. So one of the things that I loved as I read the book is I felt completely transported into these stories where people were talking about these outstanding principles and it was so fun because I mean you only get to experience so many principles as a student, and you only get to experience so many principals even as an educator, and you and I travel around all the time and we see a lot of principals, but when we're in and out, and I'll just speak for myself, when I'm in and out, I don't get to see all the millions of little things that are making the difference.
George Couros: Yeah, so like it actually, it's interesting to kind of come back to something we were talking about earlier. When Allyson and I talked about, like, we were like, Hey, what are these things that really make up great principles? Like, what are these? And we called them pillars, right? And we talked about these kind of big ideas.
And I actually wrote about this in my newsletter coming up the notion of visionary that, a principal has to be visionary. And one of the things that really mattered in that is we're not saying you as a principal coming into a school should create the vision yourself and decide it for everybody.
Right? In fact, being visionary is actually what we said is the last pillar you should focus on. Mm-Hmm. . 'cause you gotta know who you serve. You gotta know what you have access to. And that's gonna be different in different school communities. And so the vision is something you create together with your community.
But my vision that I create with my community versus someone else in like let's say in a California versus a Canada versus wherever is going to be different. And so when we kind of come back to the conversation earlier, Allyson and I identified these five pillars, but we also said, you have to make this your own.
Like, what does this look like to you? How do you actually create this? And even the pillars you could, it was interesting that just the cover of the book, each pillar looked different. And what people said without us saying anything about the book was it's really unique because each one is unique showing how you know principals can be really effective but totally different.
And so that's something, you know, like I don't know if you've ever seen this. There's a lot of a lot of commentary like, Oh, like introverted principals are way better than extroverted principals. I'm like, that's not true. There's no way that's true. And I'm not saying it's the opposite. I'm saying that some introverted principals are amazing and some extroverted principals are amazing, but it's like, you don't become the opposite because you're a principals.
If that makes sense. Yeah. I got, I think that like, There's no way that it's like one is better than the other. It's. Who are you? What does that look like to you? How do you bring that to life, right? And so like, as someone who is a principal, who is very extroverted I hired a somewhat introverted assistant principal because I didn't need another me.
I needed someone who was very different, who appealed to different people, and I talk about that quite a bit in the book, is like when we talk about, you know you know, really like, do we actually bring in different viewpoints or do we just bring in clones of ourselves? Because like, I can get that way cheaper because I already think the way I think.
I don't need someone to reaffirm it, right? I need someone who challenges me and makes me think differently about things. And so I think that's part of it too. There's no like perfect principal personality. Woo. Was that alliteration, right?
Lainie Rowell: Rolled right off the tongue for you.
George Couros: Perfect principal. Yeah. There's so many different versions. Like I've had, I've had really great principals who are very quiet and shy and don't like speaking in front of people. And I've had principals who were, you know, would be in front of the school every day and you know, it's, it's different. I think that's so like, you know, but you know, connecting with people really matters, no matter if you're introverted, extroverted, you know,
Lainie Rowell: And it's also contextual, right?
I mean, there's some situations where I feel like I'm an extrovert and others where I feel like I'm an introvert. So thinking about like in this situation, I'm going to be this type of person. If I can find someone that complements by being this type of person, if that makes sense.
George Couros: You're an ambivert, actually.
Did you know that?
Lainie Rowell: I, I have heard that. I have heard that.
George Couros: I'm that same way, right? Like after an extroverted conversation, I am exhausted.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, it's like that little battery on your phone.
George Couros: Extroverted people actually get energy from people, whereas, like, ambiverts typically become introverted after being extroverted.
Lainie Rowell: I think for everyone there's a little bit of contextuality, but yes, absolutely, there's, there's definitely some of us who, after a lot of energy put out, they're like, okay, now I need to find a dark room to sit in quietly, but.
George Couros: Right, right.
Lainie Rowell: Well, so the five pillars, if you don't mind me sharing them, because these are the universals.
And then what I think is so beautiful about the stories is, here's an example of this pillar, Relationship Builder. And it gives multiple examples, and so you get to see different slices of what a Relationship Builder looks like. Not to say these are recipes, this is how you would have to do it, but here's how it works for this person.
So we've got Relationship Builder, Continuous Learner, Talent Cultivator, Resource Maximizer, and Visionary, which you mentioned earlier, actually comes at the end because it's not just one person's vision, it's a collective, it's co created. So, are there any of these that you want to like, maybe tease into a little bit?
I have to say, I really love the stories in all of them. I think maybe the time of year that this is coming out, and I'm not going to push you into this, but if you want to talk a little bit about Talent Cultivator, as this is kind of the hiring season,
George Couros: Right. Well, so, so actually like because of a teacher, which you wrote for, right?
You're actually the first person I talked to about the idea, if you remember that.
Lainie Rowell: Oh, I remember.
George Couros: Yeah. It was a Saturday evening. Yeah.
Lainie Rowell: I can tell you where I was standing at Fashion Island in Newport Beach when we were having that conversation. Yeah.
George Couros: Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. And I, I don't, I, no personal boundaries here.
Like, Hey, I need to talk to you right now. I don't care what you're doing. Let's go.
Lainie Rowell: You were not,
George Couros: this idea will be gone.
Lainie Rowell: No, I was ready and happy to have the conversation.
George Couros: Okay. So coming back to that book, one of the, I asked three questions and the book came from my podcast. Who is a teacher that inspired you? Who is an administrator that inspired you? What advice would you give to your first year teacher self, right? And so, in Because of a Teacher, we have, you know, three parts answering each one of those questions from five different perspectives. The thing with the talent you know, when we're talking about like maximizing talent, being a talent cultivator, one of the things that is so universal in the response is when I hear about great administrators, great principals, is they saw something in me I never saw in myself.
Like, it is absolutely amazing to see that. Like, that is a consistent messaging. Like, you know, I never wanted to do this, and then I had this principle, and then this changed in me. Even talking about Kelly, I went from, I hate education, to becoming an assistant principal a year later. And, and loving education, because I didn't like, man, I hate education, now I want to boss people around.
Like, that, that wasn't the shift for me. It was like, yeah, this is. You know, I see something in me that Kelly, I had no interest in doing that. I was never, that was never, but Kelly saw something in me that I didn't understand. And seeing that, and I think it's really kind of bringing out the best in people.
And one of the things that I talk about quite a bit is when Kelly, Kelly was really powerful in the sense that she had huge turnover in her staff, but not like 2024 turnover, where everyone's leaving. But it was like, If you went to her staff, she elevated, people to, they become administrators or whatever.
She just kind of like knew how to bring something out of you and you like kind of move on. And what was interesting, it attracted people to come to the district because they knew I got a chance to work with this person. She's going to take me to a different level. Right. But there was also some people that would never leave because they're like, I want to teach.
I love being in the classroom. This is where I want to be. And she'd bring out the best of them in that practice as well. So I don't want to think like every teacher has to become an administrator or whatever, because we all know this, right? Some of the best leaders in our schools are teachers. And some of the worst leaders in our schools are administrators, right?
Leader and administrator. I actually distinguish that very distinctly in the book. So I think that's part of it is bringing that out in people is really, how do you actually bring out the best in people? And even the interview process, I'm telling a lot about the book, the interview process was so unique when I met Kelly.
Cause it wasn't like there's 10 people around the table, just firing questions at you, making no expressions. Her and Carolyn Cameron, who is the assistant principal, who has also became an amazing principal. They gave me a list.
Like it was either 10 or 15 things. And it's like, Hey, pick like five of these things that you want to talk about. And then just kind of read it over and then we'll just have a conversation. And I was like, Oh, it's kind of interesting. Like that's very, I was a little terrified. And I'll tell you in that interview, I was. balling? I was like, what is going on? Right? And it was just, I was really passionate what I was talking about. It was like, that was so unique. But it was actually like a really interesting conversation in the sense that it kind of mirrored how you would talk in a staff room kind of mirrored how you sit in an office and talk to your administrator, but there is no time where it's just like, like you're getting, if you're getting questions like this and you're actually a teacher, you're probably getting fired.
It's almost like a litigation and that really changed things because I didn't apply for like a math position or a science, I applied for a middle school teacher position. Like, that's all it said. And so she was like saying, okay, let's, let's see who's out there because we don't want to limit it to like grade seven science, even though we have a grade seven science teacher leaving and let's find the best person that we can find that fits our school community.
Right. So it didn't limit that. And so she was like, okay, this person is really good at this. Here's what we're missing in our school. Can we like make some moves in our school amongst our staff , cause he doesn't want to teach this. He'll be terrible at that. He's really good at this. So she put you in a position where your strength complimented what was needed in the school.
And then you'd be really excited to be at work every day. Cause you're like, Oh, I'm doing the thing that I want to do. And that was like, that was part of, that was amazing. Like, it was just such an incredible thing because if you like have like a grade two teaching position, then you're never going to get someone who taught, you know, high school science, you know what I mean?
Cause you're limiting, cause they're not even going to interview. Maybe it's a K to nine school. I don't know. Right. But she, you know, if you put elementary, you're going to get a different group of people who are there. If you have like K, you know, five to nine, you're a different group of people. Then it's five, nine science.
Right. So I think that, that to me was, was really, really powerful. Cause she kind of like stepped back to this person's good. Can we make some moves here? to actually tailor something to build on their strengths. And then of course you're going to do well. If someone's tailoring something to your strengths.
You're going to do well. Right. But if they're like, Hey, we're just going to fit you in. wherever, then, you know, it's not necessarily the best thing.
Lainie Rowell: Well, to have such an innovative approach to the process, not being so narrowly focused that you miss out on someone's greatness and that you can make other moves, and then also even in the actual interview, creating the conditions that would mirror the environment that you would be going into, rather than, like you said, it's not just like, we're gonna just throw a bunch of questions at you, interrogate you, make you uncomfortable like really putting you into more of the situation that you would be in if that was to happen.
George Couros: I, I had an interview about two weeks prior to that interview. And it was for like a tech position and there was 10 people sitting at a giant round table and they each asked a question, no expressions. And I was literally sick for two days after it was, it was just, this is not realistic. This is not a thing, but you know, it just, it just wasn't.
And you felt like it made you feel like, is that, that's the first impression that I'm getting? Let's say I got the job, right? Then, yeah. So, you know, it's like, if it felt like a firing squad, to be honest, it was like, It was terrifying, and it was like, this is a Like I'm also making a decision as well, right?
So I think that's, you got it. We got to think about this a little bit differently. Like, and why do people do the interview that way is that's how they were interviewed and whatever. So I just, I appreciate, you know, having people who are, are questioning and saying like, do we really need to do it that way?
Like, why are we doing this? And, and asking that question and Kelly was always good, you know, and like. She knows, and the beautiful thing, I tell her how much of an impact she's having on me, and she's just like, ah, whatever. She's just like, because there's like, you know, hundreds if not thousands of people she's had the same impact on.
Lainie Rowell: Right, right. Well, and I, and even tying how the process of hiring is, You're still wanting to build on all these pillars. It's still a part of relationship building, right? That's your very first impression. And so if you were to have had those two interview experiences within the same day or two, and they both come through with an offer, you're obviously, no question about which one you're going to go to.
So I think it's really important you're mentioning this is a two way, you're making decisions too. It's not just, it's not just those who are interviewing.
George Couros: And like, you know, that, that was a time where it was like, I was desperate for a job and I would have probably taken anyone, but I would have been mad, you know what I mean?
But now people have to see, you know, people are like, I don't want to be, that's not what I want to do. This is not what I want to, you know, I don't want to feel like this when I come in here. And I want, like we're always talking about welcoming and warm environment for our students while we're crapping on the adults.
Right. So I think that to me is that really, really matters. So it, and it, it totally, when I did interviews, I stole all that stuff from Kelly. Like its very different. And one of the things I can't remember if I talked about this in the book. So this might be a little bonus. , if you didn't get the job, if you did not get the job with me and like, let's say we interviewed four people, only one's getting the job.
I like took hours of my time having conversations with the three people who didn't get the job to help them and say like, Hey, here's something I would consider. Here's something, you know, here's something really good. Here's something to do this. And because I don't want to say like, Hey, thanks for coming, but you didn't get the job and just have that.
It's like, these people are going to go work with kids somewhere. So I want to make sure they, I set them up for success. And here's what's beautiful. I remember one teacher. I like gave her so much advice when she didn't get the job. And a week later, she's like, I just got a job and it is totally because you sat down and talked with me.
So she's now advocating for me. Like she wants people to go to my school, someone who I didn't hire loves me, because I helped her in that too. I always think about how important it is that we set up people for success, whether they work in our school or not, right?
Because they're going to be working with kids somewhere, you know, like, Hey, I really love kids except for those ones. I don't like those kids. I hope they all fail because they don't make us look better. No, you're like, you know, you never know who's going to be teaching who and you want to set them up for success.
So that was really important to me and that's something that, you know, I've learned from having really great principals, great leaders in my lifetime.
Lainie Rowell: Amazing. I love it so much. Okay. I know I got to let you go here, but I want to make sure people know What Makes a Great Principal, by the time this comes out, it will be available.
So I'll make sure to put the link to purchase in the show notes so people can grab their copy. So excited. Allyson has been a guest on the show. Now you've been a guest on the show twice. Thank you both for your time here. And what are the best ways for people to get in touch with you, George? I'll put it.
George Couros: The best way is to actually get a copy of Evolving with Gratitude by Lainie, because that's a wonderful book.
And I think that, you know, I am saying this because I'm very grateful for you, but you know, for me, you can find me on just Google George Couros. You'll find all my stuff. So but make sure you, yeah, as much as I love for you to get pick up a copy of What Makes a Great Principal, Evolving with Gratitude is also a great book.
So, you know, you can kind of combo them, buy one as a present for yourself, one as something for someone else, but make sure that you, you pick up a copy of Lainie's books because they are absolutely wonderful.
Lainie Rowell: You're so, you're so kind, George. Oh my gosh. I don't know how to follow that, but I do appreciate you.
I hope people grab a copy of What Makes a Great Principal. And sure, get Evolving with Gratitude. George is in there too. Got a story in there too. So you can get it. You can get them in both places, but definitely check out What Makes a Great Principal. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. Thank you for sharing your time and your wisdom.
And you are constantly inspiring me. Thank you, George.
George Couros: All right. See you at episode 1000. I've already confirmed the spot.
Lainie Rowell: It's yours. Locked in.
George Couros: Bye, everyone. Have a wonderful day.. Thanks.
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