Shownotes:
Get ready for an enlightening episode with Charle Peck, a powerhouse whose journey from high school teacher to clinical therapist is nothing short of inspiring! Discover how Charle harnesses her profound insights into adolescent minds to revolutionize mental health in schools. Prepare to be intrigued as she shares how simple, playful strategies can drastically shift the energy in classrooms and beyond, transforming challenges into opportunities for growth!
About Our Guest:
Charle Peck is the co-creator of Thriving School Community, a revolutionary program designed for schools to improve mental health. With over 20 years of education and mental health leadership experience, she has the unique lens of both a certified teacher and a licensed clinical therapist specializing in trauma.
Charle holds an MS in Education and an MS in Social Work. Her role as a high school teacher coupled with her work with children and families in crisis gives her incredible insight into solving youth mental health problems stemming from our schools.
She is the co-author of Improving School Mental Health: The Thriving School Community Solution and a global keynote speaker delivering powerful messages of hope to educators.
Connect with and learn from Charle:
Website: thrivingschool.org
X: @CharlePeck
LinkedIn: @charle-peck
Podcast: Thriving Educator
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing, focusing on community building, social-emotional learning, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn both a post-graduate credential and a master's degree in education. An international keynote speaker, Lainie has presented in 41 states as well as in dozens of countries across 4 continents. As a consultant, Lainie’s client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Website - LainieRowell.com
Twitter - @LainieRowell
Instagram - @LainieRowell
Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available here! And now, Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You is available too!
Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.🙌
Just fill out the forms linked above and someone will get back to you ASAP!
Transcript:
Lainie Rowell: Hello friends and hello Charle. Welcome to the show.
Charle Peck: Hey, thank you so much for having me on here, Lainie.
Lainie Rowell: I am so excited. Friends, I have to warn you, this is someone I could talk to for hours and hours and I'm going to just try and be so good about watching the clock so I don't take up too much of her time, but I'm thrilled for the time I do get with you, Charle.
And so I'm going to start off with kind of a wide question, but you have such a unique perspective and background, having been a high school teacher and then a clinical therapist, which I'm just so fascinated to learn a little bit more about your journey, your story.
Charle Peck: Yeah, well, you know what, when you teach adolescents, you learn so much about them.
They divulge so much information about their, their lives, but my curriculum was pretty amazing. I got to teach about personal and family relationships and you know, Problems in society, ultimately, and there's a lot more in between. But what happened is kids were telling me their problems and, it organically came up and I didn't realize why they were struggling so much.
I couldn't understand it. And so, because I got to teach about mental health and talk with them and teach them about their brain, I got really curious about, How can we solve this problem? I mean, there's so many of us adults surrounding them, but they're still struggling. So I, I did some leadership on the district level and I did some in the school and, and did some professional development and all that.
But instead of going the principal route, which is where I was headed, I, Pulled out of that and I decided I'm going to go get my Master of Social Work degree so that I can understand structurally what was going on to contribute to these darn problems and that was one of the best things I could do because it gave me that perspective and I knew I needed to become a clinical therapist.
I wanted to work clinically. but also specializing in trauma. And so trauma is one of those words that gets eye rolls because people don't understand it, so I don't always use it. But I'll tell you, it does help me understand what's going on in the brain and the body and why our kids are showing up with these behaviors that are making us uncomfortable in education.
So that's the gist. I could go on and on, but I'll stop there.
Lainie Rowell: Well, I'm going to ask you to clarify because I was a psych major, so I do know what clinician means, but to someone who may not know that terminology, what does that mean? How is that different from. Maybe another avenue of social work that you could have gone down.
Charle Peck: Yeah, well, I mean, there's lots of different ways to, to help people, right? And if you think clinical, you think like people are, you're going to go into a doctor's office or, or something, but it's, it is about treatment and it's about looking at somebody coming to me and saying, this is the problem. This is what I'm going through.
And how can we apply a treatment plan and especially working with a group like when I worked at a hospital in a hospital setting in crisis, it wasn't about let's use theory to help them think this through. It's how can we work together as a team and come up with a treatment plan for this patient.
So it was, it was more like that. And it also goes beyond research and it uses research to apply to just help people feel better and function better.
Lainie Rowell: , I love that you did that, and I also love when I hear you talking about theory to practice, right, like you want to actually be on those front lines to say, like, we tried this, this worked, obviously knowing that we're all unique and dynamic, but I know that you took it even further than that. with your book, right? Because, and, and I'm actually holding your book right here for those, I know, I don't do video, mostly because I don't want to see my own face, but I don't do videos, so you can't see me holding it up, but I have Improving School Mental Health by Charle Peck and Cameron Caswell.
I have it well marked up. I'm going to go to one of the things that you said, because I think this is maybe something that we want to talk a little bit about. It says, on page 33. It says "the problem is we're trying to teach students to better manage themselves, but then throw them right back into the same stressful environments that caused the issue in the first place. This leaves them little chance to thrive." It breaks your heart. It just totally breaks your heart. And I think, like, I, as I read through the entire book, that one stood out to me as a, this is why people should read this book. And I don't use that word should lightly, because I know that that can be triggering for some people.
And I, you and I both actually have written, I've seen it, that where you can cross out the should and say could. But I actually think this is one that is very important for people to read. And so tell us a little bit about kind of the catalyst for writing Improving School Mental Health.
Charle Peck: Yes, and it's important that you pulled out that particular piece because it is essential.
It's foundational. I mean, I've been thinking about this, Lainie, for over 10 years about this problem and how we can solve this for kids. And part of what I started thinking about is we're teaching SEL. We're teaching advisory. I mean, we've been teaching SEL for over 30 years now, which is great. I mean, it's, it's great.
There's great evidence for this. Now, the problem is, as we teach this to kids, and how many, how many sessions have we been through in PD where it says, okay, help the kids be resilient, help the kids do this. And relationally, how many times are we trying to fix the other person? And so when I was thinking about kids and Cam and I were talking about this, like, why are we worried about equipping these kids so much when we're throwing them back with these adults who are not equipped themselves?
And the data kept showing me, too, is, you know, 93 percent of our educators who are out there teaching kids on the front line They want to support kids, but they don't feel equipped to do that. I mean, 93 percent of them are reporting that and they're frustrated. And these behaviors that show up in front of us that make us so uncomfortable, we don't know how to sit with it.
We don't know how to guide them. We don't know what to do with it. We're putting all the ownership on kids to make this better. It just didn't make any sense to us. So that's why we came up with skills that are actually something that you can infuse into everyday practice that you can pick up pretty quickly.
That's where my background as an educator and my background as a clinical therapist really works well because I was sitting in those therapy sessions with these kids and families and like, well, we can do this in our schools too. By the way, teachers could do this with you. Why aren't they doing that now?
So that, I mean, that's a lot, a lot to take on and think about, but that's exactly why we wrote that.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, I think it's important to realize, and Marc Brackett was just on the podcast, and at the very end, I'm like, what's one thing that you just really want to make sure people know?
And he said it's about creating the communities, creating the spaces where we can take care of each other. It's not enough to figure out how to regulate on your own, or how to figure out, you know, anything, how to deal with those feelings. It's if you're constantly being put in an unhealthy situation. And so with, of course, the best of intentions and educators are so hardworking, so dedicated, and they do so much.
But as you said, a lot of them don't feel equipped to handle it. And so I think what the good news is, is that there are actually really small practices. It would be really hard if our message, and I think our work aligns so well, but I think it would be really hard if our message was, you're going to have to throw out, all the academics, you're going to have to throw out the things that maybe brought you into teaching that you love the most and you're going to have to focus on SEL all day, every day. I think that would be like a really tough sell, but the good news is it's not that. It's actually small things that we can do to retrain our brains and to help the community thrive.
Not just the individual, but the community too. I think that's so important.
Charle Peck: It is. It's got to be the community. Think about somebody who's trying to learn a language. If we're teaching kids language, we have to be teaching that too. We have to be talking it. We have to be living it. We have to talk about all the cultural aspects that come into play.
And by the way, it's not adding it on piece by piece. It's about living amongst it. And it, but it has to be so simple that we'll actually do it, especially because we're in the midst of crisis. It's just like the work that you're doing in gratitude, Lainie. It, it's, there's tons of evidence behind it, but nobody wants to hear about that.
They want to say, well, how can I use it and how can I do it so simply that it will work?
Lainie Rowell: Okay, so my five star review came through on Amazon yesterday. So you can, you can see that because that's, that's my love language. And so one of the things that I talk about in that review is that this isn't just a book, it's a tool.
One that educators, administrators, and mental health professionals can all use with confidence to foster this supportive and understanding and healthy environment. And so one of the things, I mean, I could go on and on about how I really love the smart moves that you and Cam made as far as graphically and just like where you place things, but I won't nerd out on that as much, but I do want to nerd out a little bit on what are some of the, you know, I love practical and actionable and you have in the book these rapid resets and I wonder if you could just give us a little taste and maybe one of your favorite rapid resets or maybe one that people would be surprised because they've never heard of this one before because there were ones in there that I had not heard of before.
Charle Peck: Yeah, well some of them I just adapted on my own because It was just in the moment with kids, working with kids. And by the way, we do this with adults too, but rapid resets, the reason we call it that, you would think of a brain energizer. Everybody knows about brain energizers. It's about retraining the brain to do something or refocusing when you need it.
I always say it's about switching the energy in a classroom or a meeting, a meeting too. But also this worked in crisis when I was working with kids and oftentimes there would be kids who were, you could tell that they weren't regulating or they were anxious. And what we needed to do was to distract their amygdala.
So there's a lot of training I got in CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, DBT a lot of all of these technical trainings that I got, even in trauma processing. And I thought, well, gosh, there's a basic underlying piece there. We need to distract the amygdala. We need to find our calm, but nobody likes to be told to calm down or to just breathe sometimes.
Right. And so it needed to be playful. And it also needed to be something that would just work in a moment's notice very quickly that teachers could do to benefit themselves as well. And in front of a group where you need to change energy, sometimes where it feels so overstimulating and loud, we need to calm that down.
Or, sorry, but sometimes, you know, you don't have your kids engaged and it's kind of low and you need to bring the energy up. So there's a million different ones. One that I always do that captures people and I'm going to explain it and Lainie you can try it and I know your listeners are just hearing this so I'm going to explain it in a way that you can just hear it through auditory and practice.
This is my favorite one. Everyone seems to love it and remember it. So you get one of your thumbs up and then you, Point with your pointer finger at your thumb with your other hand, okay? So one hand has a thumb up, the other hand has a pointer finger pointing at your thumb, and if you've worked with me before, you know exactly what we're gonna do next, and that is just simultaneously switching.
Okay, so now my other thumb went up on my other hand, while my finger on my pointer finger on my other hand Pointed at that thumb. Okay. And now you're just going to switch back to the other way. And then you're going to go really fast like this. And some of you are going to be like, what the heck? I can't do this.
What? And that's because your brain has not rewired to that learning yet. However, it's a great lesson, not only to refocus, it's a great lesson for growth mindset that listen, I didn't get it the first time, but boy, I'll get there. And it's playful and fun. And you get people laughing and it shuts down the stress response system.
And all of a sudden you've shifted the energy in your classroom. or your meeting, by the way. I use this even with superintendents. And and then it just, it's, it's a way that you'll notice with your kids that one is about to say something or do something that's going to throw the whole group off.
You're like, okay, everybody, I noticed that we need to do this. Let's do it. Right. So there's lots of ways to incorporate it for fun and for reason.
Lainie Rowell: And I'm so happy that this is audio only, and Charle, you did a really good job at not laughing at how badly I did that. Thank you for that. But it's because I haven't done that practice before, so I do have to learn how to do that.
But it is really fun, and it's something that you would think is so easy. It's so easy, but it's actually challenging if you haven't done it before, so give that a try. There are so many rapid resets in the book, and again, that's, that my favorite is practical and actionable books. There's a lot of really good books out on theory, but if it's something I can't put into practice with the people I serve, that for me is not going to carry as much weight.
Charle Peck: Right. Well, and I also like part of that. I like that teachers can use that for themselves because part of, part of my message is that you have to be able to manage your own mental health and wellness. And folks, this does not mean that we step out of things when they're uncomfortable. That's what we've done.
We've done that. And we don't know how to sit in that discomfort. And then when kids don't know how to do that and their behavior shows up in ways that we're like, it gives us an emotional charge. We don't know how to manage ourselves and we certainly don't know how to respond to them. The best thing we can think of is, Oh my gosh, we've got to stop everything right now, or I can't handle this and I'm out.
So I am telling you there is hope because we can manage and then stay and feel excited about the work we're doing.
Lainie Rowell: The quote that keeps popping in my head Dr. Aliza Pressman, Raising Good Humans. Podcast. Talks about all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not. And I think that's maybe a way to, to try and process through what can I think sometimes feel like mixed messages, because it sometimes feels like we're saying there are no bad emotions, because there aren't, right? All emotions serve a purpose.
So we can welcome all the feelings, all the emotions. What we don't welcome is all the behaviors. And I think that's where it's really important. And so when it comes a time where the behavior is not appropriate in the context, it's time to shift. And so these rapid resets, whether it's to shift up in energy or like you said, to calm down, bring it down.
We want to distract the amygdala so we can get back to behavior that is appropriate. fitting for the circumstances.
Charle Peck: That's absolutely right, Lainie. And it's important that we understand that that there's a brain body connection. So no kid is saying, I want to act like this, and look like this, and even feel like this.
And I don't want it to show this way, but, Oh my gosh, my body is responding. And so that's part of the teaching we do is, is we have this wheel of reactivity and it's, it's about, well, how is your brain that that's going off for that amygdala, because it's part of our nervous system. How is your nervous system responding to that right now?
Because right now we need to develop skills to go back to that word that you said before I think it was when I was interviewing you for my podcast is notice, notice, is essential because if we're not noticing, we can't catch ourselves and then make the shift. So I'm glad you had mentioned that. Yeah.
By the way, listeners, you need to listen to Lainie's amazing, amazing interview on my podcast called Thriving Educator, because that's going to be, I can't wait to release that too.
Lainie Rowell: Well, thank you. And this is what podcasters like to do. We like to talk to each other and hit record. And so, and I was just looking forward to getting you on this show and I want to go back to something that has has been kind of a theme here is that it's not just for kids.
It's for adults as well, right? It's that we are creating communities and these communities consist of adults and kids. And then also, even just in the workplace, and it's funny because you and I do a lot of work where we're sometimes only interacting with adults. It's funny because we do a lot of work in education, we do work outside of education, but even when we're in education, we're only doing stuff with the adults.
And I do the same practices, right? Because this is stuff that is just about being a human. It's not specific necessarily. There are considerations for developmental and all of that, but these are practices that are just across the board, good for humans.
Charle Peck: They are. And that's why there's a couple of industries that have been connecting with me.
First of all, college level programs are now contacting me to teach their college students this, especially pre service teachers. I mean, we need to get them skilled before they get into the darn classroom. Even with this stuff, it can be packaged. This is what people are coming to me for. They're like, this is classroom management strategies too.
And I said, yes, it actually is. It definitely is mental health rooted, but it absolutely is classroom management. We're looking over after our own needs and then responding effectively to conflict and reducing that conflict. But you know what, who else has been, has been coming to me, these Fortune 500 companies are coming to me and they're saying, we need this for not only employee wellness, but employee investing in our employee workforce, giving them skills because it's investing in human capital in their workforce.
So it's just, it's exploding because it, it does get back to some of the basics that we all just need to have to thrive.
Lainie Rowell: Absolutely. Charle, one of my favorite things about bringing in brilliant people like you is you're not here to just point out the problems, you're coming with solutions. So, tell us how does this work in a system, in an organization, in learning communities?
Charle Peck: Yes, oh my goodness. So because it's been based on needs and I've been customizing for several years to the different districts and companies that are coming to me, it's helped me to really see a longer term solution.
And so part of that is you can bring me in and do professional development. I do the half days and full day PDs and I equip. teachers, essentially, and then school counselors, I work with them, and district leaders, principals, and all that. What I had to decide is how are we going to make this long term sustainable, how are we going to build autonomy within these school districts and schools, and how are we going to make it affordable and something that we can use over and over and over to have a real transformation culturally.
That's really the goal. And so I developed this program where I, I train people. It is, it's like a train the trainer model, but not so big. And some people could just learn the skills on their own and just be done there and, and acquire those in a self paced way. And that's something that's, that's already out there.
Something else I've been working on is PD, because that's where they're like, I want more. How do I get more of this? And, and then. Are you hiring? They ask me that a lot. Or how do you equip me? So I devise this plan. It's the level two. They become, become a facilitator. So we can do that virtually. I come on site.
I can train people, a group of the mental health team members there, or I just started a retreat, which I'm excited about, which is a wellness retreat, but also they get trained and certified to run this stuff. I give them all the facilitation. And activities and all that afterwards too. So that is how we have to do it systemically.
I will not be the only one doing this. I have to equip the people already within the system who know their own system well and can work from the strengths.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, a solution that is sustainable is so critical and I think that so often we see that not happen and then budgets change, attention changes, whatever it is, and then things fall apart.
Well, that didn't work. Well, you have to have it. It has to be sustainable. That's just the only way. And so I love that you offer so many different solutions. And, I want to ask you one more question before I get to how can people connect with you. But that's coming, friends, so stay tuned, okay?
So I want to ask you this question that I love to ask, and that is, what is something you either can't share enough, I mean, something you could just have said a million, million times, but you could say it a million more times and be happy. So something you can't share enough, or something you haven't had a chance to share before.
Charle Peck: If we're not willing to make any kind of change, change will not happen. And that's exactly why Josh and I got together. I mean, I have this book of nine skills I'm really proud of and they are, they are working well, but there has to be something before that to get people ready to acquire them and use them in a way that they're going to be meaningful, not only for ourselves, but for others and learning to step outside of ourselves to create that secure space.
So that's, That's why Josh and I are writing this book about how to get there, how to get that, that mentality ready in a very easy, easy, quick way. So I'm excited about that, but listen, if we're not willing to do this, then we're not going to make the change. I just ask people to just challenge themselves.
Are you ready?
And when are you ready? And let's do this because we can.
Lainie Rowell: Absolutely. Well, I am so excited that Improving School Mental Health, the Thriving School Community Solution book, is already out, so people can grab this today, and where is the best place for them to get it?
Charle Peck: They can get it right on Amazon, just, just look at Improving School Mental Health and our solution, the program is the Thriving School Community Solution.
It's kind of a mouthful, but that's the best way to say it. It's a community wide approach.
Lainie Rowell: And hopefully I said it right. Did I say it right?
Charle Peck: You did. You did.
Lainie Rowell: Sometimes I go back and I listen to these episodes and I'm like, what was I saying? Those were not the words that were in my head. They came out of my mouth all different.
So I'm very excited that people can go get this right now. And then when does the Peck Stamper masterpiece hit the stands? Do we look for that soon, hopefully?
Charle Peck: Yes. Well, actually it was moved up. So we're supposed to be finished with it in August. And it's supposed to be out by early fall, even maybe August.
So we're definitely pushing for it to get out there. It's a lot of people who are asking for it, which we're really excited about.
Lainie Rowell: Well, I am very excited for that. So, Improving School Mental Health on Amazon right now. Go grab that. And then also, we've got something to look forward to from Charle Peck and Joshua Stamper.
And Charle, what is the best way for people to connect with you? I'm sure there's some spaces where people could find even more about you.
Charle Peck: Well, the easiest for everybody to remember is just go to thrivingeducator.org. That's where everything is. All the information, the speaking, the PD, that program I mentioned before.
But if you want to email me, please do. My first name is spelled C H A R L E and then at thrivingeducator. org. Reach out. We have a lot to talk about, a lot of work to do.
Lainie Rowell: Yes, and it's my job to make this as easy as possible for people to get to you and your amazing resources like the book. So I'm going to make sure everything's in the show notes.
So friends, if you're driving right now, you can just wait until you are safely parked and then go into the show notes and tap away. And we are so excited for people to get a hold of all of these resources. Have Charle out. She is such a delight and a just the wisdom, the brilliance. I really encourage people to connect with Charle Peck.
And Charle, thank you so much for being here.
Charle Peck: Wow. Thank you so much, Lainie, truly.
Lainie Rowell: And thank you all for listening.