Shownotes:
An insightful episode of 'Meta Moments' as we dive into gratitude in learning communities with the dynamic Marisa Thompson. Discover how Marisa's journey from the classroom to a coordinator of curriculum and MTSS has enriched her perspective on empowering educators. Explore the art of authentic appreciation, the value of teacher support, and the power of specific feedback. Tune in for a refreshing conversation that transcends traditional teaching and embraces the limitless potential of education.
About Our Guest:
Marisa E. Thompson (M.A. Teacher Education) is an international speaker, instructional coach, and the Coordinator of Curriculum & MTSS. Having been a classroom teacher for 16 years and seeing the transformational power of letting go of “so-called limitations” in her own classroom, Marisa is on a mission to challenge and equip teachers and educational leaders to do the same. Through her experience, humor, and practical tools, she pushes districts and teachers to believe they have the power to transform the learning experience for both students AND teachers.
Website: unlimitedteacher.com
Twitter: @MarisaEThompson
Instagram: @marisa.e.thompson/
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Twitter - @LainieRowell
Instagram - @LainieRowell
Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available here! And now, Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You is available too!
Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.🙌
Just fill out the forms linked above and someone will get back to you ASAP!
Transcript:
Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome, welcome, friends. I am so happy to have Marissa Thompson with us, and I'm gonna give her a quick little introduction in just a moment. But first I wanna say, hi Marissa. How are you today?
Marisa Thompson: I'm doing really well, thank you. How are you?
Lainie Rowell: I'm good.
So Marissa Thompson is an international speaker, an instructional coach, and the coordinator of curriculum and MTSS and friends, that's just the beginning. So Marissa, please tell us more.
Marisa Thompson: Well, I was in the English classroom, high school English for 16 years and absolutely loved it. I proposed a job to my district to be able to support teachers.
And so I was doing a little half and half of that, and I just got into conferences and really meeting people who are just as energized about, life and teaching and everything as I was. And it's just that feeling when you meet your people, you know? And so that opened up a ton of opportunities to me, and I'm currently working for someone I consider to be my longtime mentor when it comes to education, and I'm just having a blast working with this really amazing team of educators who are serving students who, who really need some attention and, and some extra awesome educators. So it's an honor to work with them.
My current role is coordinator of curriculum and MTSS, so I work with three different schools and I support the teachers in their curriculum and design and making it really intentional so that it benefits kids, but also benefits them so that everybody gets to have that work-life balance and everybody can show up with, with joy, you know, and be, be really present when they're there together.
Lainie Rowell: Now, for those who might not be familiar with MTSS which I think is growing to be a smaller and smaller number of educators, but I do work with educators in a variety of settings, and I can tell you there are still a good amount of educators that might not be familiar with M T S S.
So let's not take that for granted. What is M T S S?
Marisa Thompson: Right. And I appreciate that. I run into that sometimes too, in different states or different countries. So MTSS is Multi-Tiered System of Supports. All of our students fall under these different tiers. It's not a label for students, it's just, you know, if we're gonna say we support students, we're gonna support all of them.
Some of them might need a little bit extra, some of them might need even a little bit more than that. So it's just really a way to make sure that we're doing everything that we can for kids and making sure that the systems that we're, that we're offering that support, that we're offering is what exactly what they need.
Not, not too much, not, you know, not enough.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, and I think one of the things that I love about M T S S is that we're not saying here's where a child is. They live here, they'll always be here. It's a system designed to appreciate the unique and the dynamic and understanding that it's contextual and in certain situations we might need more support academically, socially, emotionally, behaviorally, but that, that's in constant motion, if you will.
And so how do we create a system that honors what are our strengths and also supports us in ways that makes sure that we all have those firm goals and we can all achieve our best.
Marisa Thompson: Well, I think that's an important point because I think sometimes, okay, you've got the paperwork, right?
So now this is who you are and this is the support that you get. We sign that paper, right? That's not what this is. It's fluid like you said, you know, it might be that in this moment, for this one semester, that kiddo needs some help. That kiddo needs some extra help, but it's not a designation and I really appreciate that.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah. I think when someone said to me, There's no such thing as a tier two student that really hit home to me that this isn't, like you said, it's not a designation, it's we have supports that are tier two.
Marisa Thompson: Right. It's not a description of the kid, it's a description of what we can offer.
Lainie Rowell: I love that. Okay, so Marissa. I'm gonna ask you the first question, which people might get tired of this question. Maybe I need a new first question. I'm not even sure, but I want it to be less about a definition per se. 'cause we can look that up, but what does it just kind of mean to you in your life?
And so take that however you want. There's no right or wrong answer.
Marisa Thompson: I don't think you need a new question. I think it's worth revisiting, right? And getting everybody's lenses for, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that, but I would say that for me it's, it's really knowing that at any moment you can let yourself be really present.
Right. And to take in how wonderful things are, even when they're hard. I'm experiencing right now a, a lot of things. And so I was trying to kind of change that narrative for myself and think about all the things I'm really grateful for. And I described it to somebody and they said, you know, how's it going?
And I was going to say, Ooh, it's a little bad right now. But instead I just, I didn't wanna keep that going. Of course, now I just said it, but I, I tried to describe it instead as well, I'm learning how much I can take.
Lainie Rowell: Yep.
Marisa Thompson: It turns out I can take a lot. So I'm still here. And I think that that's, I can look around and sometimes I do, right?
Sometimes I actually stop and instead of the proverbial take a look around, I actually look around. And I take that breath and I allow myself to be present. And then I try really hard to speak my gratitude, my appreciation with really specific words. To make sure that it's really clear to myself and to other people how much they truly are appreciated.
It's not lip service.
Lainie Rowell: Mm-hmm. That's specific and authentic.
And it was funny 'cause you're talking us through how you are intercepting your negativity bias before you say something to someone.
So you're getting meta and then you're actually feeling bad about, but then I said it to you all. No, we're good. We're good. I appreciate you doing the meta and say, you know, here's my negativity bias coming in. And I hear you doing, I've heard Jay Shetty say this before, where you're, you're spotting it, you're stopping and you're swapping before you put it out there.
And one of the things that. I talk to people when we're having these conversations and I'm always so fascinated in what people think. And you know, some people push back and it's like, oh, you can't ignore the negative. Well actually by default we ignore the positive. We don't ignore the negative, we stay fixated on the negative.
So I really appreciate you taking us through your thought process of like, okay, I had something coming in, but I'm gonna reframe this. And I think that reframing makes a huge difference.
Marisa Thompson: It does make a difference for me and I don't think acknowledging the negative and stopping it means that I'm ignoring it. I think it means that I get to have a choice in it.
And, I think there's a lot to learn from the negative, so I'm not trying to ignore it, you know? Even as I'm in this space, I'm thinking, okay, okay, I'm going through it. I'm experiencing it. I can be grateful for other things, but I'm also gonna learn from it. Right? And for me, there are some lessons that I'm taking in right now and going, okay, I'm going to make sure I say this lesson out loud.
So I said it even to my daughter, she's turning 10 this weekend, right? I said it to my husband like, Hey, I'm experiencing this. I know you're watching me experience this, but it's not gonna be like this next time, because next time I'm gonna know what to do.
Lainie Rowell: Oh, that's such a great way to think about that learning through this experience.
Maybe it's the hardest the first time, but the next time I know I've got the skills. I know I can handle this even better next time.
So let's dive into some more of the examples. You know, one of the first times we connected. Was through Corrie, wasn't it?
Marisa Thompson: Yeah. It was Corrie Myers and then Katie Martin. Yeah. Yeah.
Lainie Rowell: We have those two friends in common.
Corrie had asked me to write an article for, Dude, Be Nice. And then you and I connected and I think Corrie actually told me something that you were doing in your classroom, if I'm remembering this correctly, gosh, I feel like I'm getting old. I cannot remember the sequence of events to save a life.
But...
Marisa Thompson: That sounds right. That sounds like her. That sounds like something she would totally do. Right. She's a, she's a connector. It's who she is and what she does. Yeah. And I love that for her. And I'm appreciate it of her. Right. I love having her in my life for that reason. She's brought so many wonderful people to me, you know?
Yeah, she's great. Yeah. I, I do a lot of. Really really intentional things in the classroom and I think we all do. Right. But she was doing a project called The Gratitude Project, which was awesome, and you really should talk to her or Sarah Hunter about it. And we'll, we'll do that after, of course, but, there are so many opportunities every day where it doesn't need to be a project, right?
It doesn't need to be this big thing that we're gonna do, where we're gonna focus on gratitude and read all the articles and make it a unit because it should be part of just a daily practice, you know? So I will thank students. I'll thank teachers that I work with, but I'll thank students.
There are times when students would admit that they were behind on something and I would thank them for their integrity. It's helpful. Anytime that I caught a student, you know, caught a student doing something good. I'm not gonna bring it up. I'm not gonna interrupt everybody, but I used to slip 'em a little sticker and it was a be good people sticker, and I would write a little note like, I saw that and you didn't have to do that, but I saw that you did that, and we need more people doing stuff like that.
I need, I need that in my world. I just want you to know that I appreciate it and I wanted to acknowledge it. I write thank you cards as well. One of my friends, a teacher friend, actually, she complimented me on my thank you cards, and I had never really considered it before, but I guess people write like a couple generic sentences, like thanks for whatever.
And she's like, you don't. You go the full monty on the sucker. You go, I'm so thankful this is what you did. And I, I know that took time and I appreciate it and here's the positive impact it had on me, and I just want you to know. And she's like, oh my gosh, no one does that. But I, I write thank you cards and I'll write thank you cards to my students too.
One of my students, she just moved to Chicago this week. She's gotta be 28, 29 now. But she messaged me. She got in touch on social media and said, Hey, I just wanted to update you, which is like also a statement of Gratitude, right? Mm-hmm. And she goes, I was cleaning up my room and I have your card.
That you wrote me, and I'm just sitting there going, God, what a beautiful thing that is. Right. That I saw something that I felt like I needed to thank you for. I did it. I wrote it, and you felt the need to keep it. And then I, I mean, maybe it was in, you know, tucked away in some trash or something, but I mean, like you had it.
Yeah. And then you decided to reach out. And express your gratitude as well. Like it's just a beautiful, reciprocal thing.
Lainie Rowell: It is a reciprocal thing. And so one, I have to point out how. This episode has like a theme of meta because like a thank you for the thank you note. Right? It's like, that's so fun.
But it does actually lead into the other thing we're talking about this reciprocal, because it's like there are some people who we actually get into these potentially unending loops of Gratitude where it's like we can't stop thanking each other. And like sometimes I'll be like, I love you and now we're gonna go on with our...
Marisa Thompson: we need to stop.
I mean, there's that episode right? Of the good life where it's like, thank you. I want to thank you. I want to thank you for your thank you some champagne to thank you for the thank you that you thanked me for. And I was like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I know what it's like, but I need it's need to go see that.
It's so good. It's so worth it.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, well, I'm gonna have to look that up. I'm always looking for these little clips. Anyone who's seen me present, I, I always bring in these tiny little, maybe it's from a reel or maybe it's something, but just a few seconds of this gratitude interaction happening because there's, we catch the feelings, right?
We actually get to vicariously experience this gratitude interaction, and it's just so lovely. Not always as funny as the good life, but...
Marisa Thompson: so good. You, we'll, we'll get it. I'll make sure that you get it for sure. Okay. Because I'm sure you're busy and you've gotta do all these things, but I will,
Lainie Rowell: you're busy too.
Marisa Thompson: ...make sure you get,
Lainie Rowell: We'll find it and we'll get it in the show notes. How about that? Okay.
Marisa Thompson: Sounds good. Sounds good.
Lainie Rowell: So we can all go through this in a fun and humorous way, because that's a good way to, to live life, right?
Marisa Thompson: Yes.
Lainie Rowell: I wanna point out that you're talking about something, it reminded me of one of my favorite James clear quotes.
A lot of people think what they need is intensity, but what they really need is consistency. And when you're talking about these little ways that you do it, I think that's so important because I know for me, one of the biggest barriers to gratitude is sometimes I wait till I. get to the pretty stationary or wait till I can sit down and compose it perfectly.
And I think what often is most important is that with like you're doing specificity and authenticity, we just get it out there. Yeah. Like let's just get that message out there. Let's not wait on it. And even in the smallest ways, it can make such a big difference.
Marisa Thompson: It does, and then you can do it in big stuff too.
Right? And sometimes that stationary is everything and sometimes it's an action. Right. And the blog that I write, so I write this blog and I, I feel like little hacks, like it's just stuff right for teachers to, to use and it's great, but. I actually wrote it because I was bored in a summer school class.
I got, I got pulled in to teach a summer school class for somebody who had unfortunately a family emergency. Right. And they're like, Marissa, can you come in here? I'm like, sure. What am I teaching? I'm an English teacher. Math, okay. Self-paced online math. And I'm like, oh, okay. Well I guess I'll come do that because somebody needs with a credential needs to be there right?
In case of whatever. And I'm sitting there for five hours a day for three weeks. And so I'm looking at Twitter right back. This is way, so I'm looking at Twitter and everyone's sharing their ideas. I'm like, it's so nice, and I've used some of their ideas. Now I'm gonna throw something out there too, right?
Like, this worked for me, so I'm gonna throw it out there just as like a pay it forward. You shared something with me. I'm gonna offer something out to you and maybe it'll help somebody. And that's. That's how that started. So it could be, it could be the little thing where you just say something and you make sure you're being really clear.
It could be the thing where you find the stationary and sometimes it's something else. And you know,
Lainie Rowell: there's so many different ways to do it. Mm-hmm. In fact, let's dig into that because you're doing different things in your role right now than traditional Be in the classroom with students. Right. I say that with so much love 'cause I'm doing it too.
Yeah. So one of the things I think when you step out of the classroom, And your goal is still to support kids in every way possible. But now your goal becomes, and how do I support my colleagues? Not that, that we don't do that as classroom teachers. To be clear, I know that classroom teachers support each other, but when you step out of the classroom and you're no longer rostered students, And your primary role is to support educators who can support kids.
That's, that's a different thing. Right? And so kind of, what does that look like for you?
Marisa Thompson: It's really different and it was a hard thing to do, especially after 16 years, right? Like, you're in there, you're with the kids, you know what, you know your stuff, you know your community, you know your kiddos, you know what you're gonna do in September and how that's gonna roll into, you know, like, you know, all of it.
It's been wonderful. It's been wonderful. It was a hard transition. To leave it, it felt like a change in identity to be honest. But I get to do that. I was doing that anyway. Mm-hmm. At conferences. I was doing that through coaching. I was doing it through consulting or whatever. I was doing that kind of work.
But I couldn't keep it sustainable. I couldn't do all the things, and so I. I with Covid, the district asked me to help with the response for secondary. And so I had to leave my classroom and I had to leave my school and I had to leave my little community to be able to, to do that work at a time when it was needed.
And I couldn't return I couldn't return to that school and I couldn't return to the way that. I normally taught. And so I, I did go back to the classroom and always love the kids and love my subject area and love the camaraderie and everything else. But when this opportunity came, that offered me some more flexibility and to be able to, to help more kiddos and, and help a lot of teachers, I, I jumped, I had to jump.
Lainie Rowell: I actually got chills as you were talking through that, because I've lived this, right. It's this time where, You're kind of getting pulled in too many different directions, and as much as you love being in with learners of the younger ages it also feels a little unfair to everyone involved, including the kids.
So it's like you, you kind of have to make this, this jump. And I heard you say it kind of was a change in your identity and maybe challenged your identity a little bit. And I, I totally related to that as well.
Marisa Thompson: I think a lot of people do. Anytime. If you're, if you're a teacher, there's, there's something really wonderful that comes with being able to say that, right?
And, and there's like an, there's an honor to it, right? I'm a teacher. And for me to now say I am the coordinator of curriculum, and M T S S has a very different ring to it, right? Like there's not, it doesn't translate the same way to like the general public of I am a teacher, you know? But it's. It is awesome, and I love it.
I will forever miss kids. I miss them on an extremely regular basis, but I'm lucky. My, my students were older, so I, I'm in touch with a lot of them. I live in the same community. Some of them are like nephews to me. They, they know my kids, like they've, they come over. We have, we have dinner when they come.
You know, like it's a normal, it's a normal thing. They're just. They're just in my life as opposed to just being in my classroom.
Lainie Rowell: I totally related when you said, now when people ask what do I do? And it was so funny too, 'cause my mother-in-law, she is like, can you just gimme an easy way to tell people what you do?
'cause when you were a teacher, it was just really easy to say she's a teacher. And now I have no idea what to tell people you do.
Marisa Thompson: Yeah. Right. I finally 'cause my own children, they keep calling me a teacher and they're like, when can we go to your classroom? And I'm like, again? Again, buddy. I, I don't have one.
Okay. So cause they used to go and there would be candy, right? But I, I describe it to my kids as like, you know, your coach? Like Yeah. I'm like, I'm like that. I coach teachers and they're like, oh, what do you coach them to do? And I was like, well, I coach them how to help the students in the way that they really want to, and I coach them how to make it better for themselves too.
And I think that's, if we were going to describe like what my philosophy is, it's that of, yeah, I want to help kids. I'm a teacher, I'm an educator. That's what I'm about. And when you talk about English, I want 'em to read, I want 'em to write. I want 'em to think and discuss and create. But I also think that when we talk about universal design and when we talk about the daily experience and we talk about teacher retention and SEL and all these other things, that there's somebody else in the room that we need to consider when we're designing.
And that's the teacher. So that's, that's where my work is. And, and that's the, the message that I keep hammering every time that I go and, and share some of those, those things that I, that we do.
Lainie Rowell: Well, I think it's a real blessing that we get to do what we get to do because we get to see our peers in practice, probably more than a lot of people.
I mean, a classroom teacher rarely sees another classroom teacher in practice, but when you step outta the classroom and you move into a role where your primary is more of professional learning, you get to see other educators in practice, and that has been probably the best professional learning of my life.
Marisa Thompson: Oh yeah. I mean, just if we could make that real Yeah. The, the, the growth, like the transformation that, that would be. 'cause it's inspiring to see, to see people doing their thing. Like when people are in the zone, it's so much fun to watch. I don't care what their zone is, but when it's teachers in the zone, oh, it's so much fun.
And there's always something that you can glean from it. You know.
Lainie Rowell: I always share how we can do the instructional rounds, we can do the observe me, but we also need to take time just to honor what's going really well. I think in education as a profession that is dedicated to continuous improvement, and while that is hugely important, I think sometimes we spend so much time focusing on how we could get better, we don't take moments to just pause and point out the really good things that are happening. So I think instructional rounds are amazing. I think it's also okay to once in a while visit each other's classrooms and just point out what they're doing really, really well.
Marisa Thompson: And just being inspired by it. When you go and see someone doing their thing and it's going well, and you think to yourself, oh, I love what they're doing, and you express that to 'em, right? Then to be able to take it one step further and go, can you explain that to me? Can you explain how that happens? Or what do you do when this goes awry?
Or, or, you know, how can I make that work for my subject area? Because I would really love to, when we start using that to build our connections and using the positive to build our connections, that is just invaluable investment, right? And, and the foundation of having a really good year and a really solid team.
Lainie Rowell: I'm a huge fan of that asset-based approach. Absolutely. Doesn't mean we won't be learning from it, but let's start from like, here are things we're already doing really, really well, and I like how you added that specifically. Like, okay, what, what if this happened? Or what if this happened? Teach me more.
Mm-hmm. Because I saw you do it perfectly, but maybe I have some questions about like how it might not work the same for me.
Marisa Thompson: @Right, right.
Lainie Rowell: Our time has flown by and now I'm gonna ask you for your shout out.
Marisa Thompson: You know what, it's a great, it's a great problem to have. I listed like five, so it's not fair. So my family has really stepped up. It's been an interesting time, and so my family has been, has been there for me. So I wanna say my family, but I actually wrote down Corrie. I did, she's, she is a huge supporter and I learn a ton from her.
And she, every once in a while will message me and, And remind me of things that I probably have forgotten or just, just a positive voice and somehow, you know, maybe a little psychic knows exactly when it's needed. So I'm shouting out Corrie on this one.
Lainie Rowell: I love that. Yeah. The friends who just sense that you want that phone call that maybe you need that phone call.
Those are good friends to have.
Marisa Thompson: I love that. Right. Just that, that perfectly timed text and you just, Thank you for that.
Lainie Rowell: They knew I needed it. I love that.
Marisa Thompson: That's right.
Lainie Rowell: Marissa, people are gonna wanna connect with you if they're not already connected. What is the best way to do that?
Marisa Thompson: You know, I'm on all social media, but it can be tricky with a generic last name, like Thompson.
Yes. So if we just go to UnlimitedTeacher.com, you're gonna find all the links to all the things and we'll be able to connect. I'm looking forward to it. I want to hear what people think and what they're doing.
Lainie Rowell: Okay, so UnlimitedTeacher.com. That's right. I will put that in the show notes because that makes it the easiest.
Right? People can just click on it. In fact, I'll even put your social handles clickable in the show notes so people can go on that.
Marisa Thompson: Awesome. Awesome.
Lainie Rowell: And I have so much appreciation for the fact that when your last name is thompson, it's not going to be easy to grab a handle, especially across all the socials.
So I got really lucky that there's not a lot of Lainie out there, and I don't think I've come across a Lainie Rowell yet.
Marisa Thompson: Yeah, I had to throw, I had to throw the E in there. Yes. Marisa E Thompson. It sounds a little, a little fancy, but.
Lainie Rowell: It's very prestigious. I love it.
Marisa Thompson: It works. It works.
Lainie Rowell: Okay, so we'll get that all in the show notes and I've been looking forward to having you on for so long and I'm so glad we got this opportunity to talk and I appreciate everything you're doing for kids and adults and keep putting that great stuff out there and we'll keep consuming it, putting into practice ourselves.
Marisa Thompson: Yeah, I appreciate that. Thanks for having me. It was nice chatting.
Lainie Rowell: It's so great. Thank you all for listening.