Shownotes:
This episode brings in a real heavy-hitter as I'm joined by the renowned Dave Burgess. We explore the incredible power of gratitude and Dave shares his authentic approach to showing gratitude to educators and readers. Dave also reveals an "impossible gift" that can have a huge impact in our daily lives. Join us for a heartwarming and empowering conversation that will leave you inspired to make a positive impact!
About Our Guest:
Dave is the New York Times best-selling author of Teach Like a Pirate, the co-author of P is for Pirate, and the co-founder and president of Dave Burgess Consulting, Inc. which has published almost 200 books for educators around the world. He is also a professional development and keynote speaker well-known for his outrageously energetic and unique performance style. He is also the host of The Dave Burgess Show.
Website: daveburgessconsulting.com
Twitter: @burgessdave
Instagram: @dbc_inc
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is an educator, international consultant, podcaster, and TEDx speaker. She is the lead author of Evolving Learner and a contributing author of Because of a Teacher. Her latest book, Evolving with Gratitude, was just released. An experienced teacher and district leader, her expertise includes learner-driven design, community building, online/blended learning, and professional learning. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Twitter - @LainieRowell
Instagram - @LainieRowell
Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available here! And now, Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You is available too!
Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.🙌
Just fill out the forms linked above and someone will get back to you ASAP!
Transcript:
Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Okay, my friends, so to say that I have been looking forward to having this guest on the pod would be a massive understatement because I have been looking forward to this for so long and I'm not gonna make him feel guilty about the fact that I might have asked a year or so ago for him to join. I am just gonna be grateful that he is here.
And friends, I am talking about the Dave Burgess. Welcome Dave.
Dave Burgess: Lainie. I am so excited to be on the show, and yes, as anyone who has emailed me, knows sometimes I am a email flake, but if you send me a message, like a direct message or something like that, all of a sudden you'll see I am much more efficient.
Lainie Rowell: It's good for people to know your communication language, right? Like this is the mode ...
Dave Burgess: Exactly.
Lainie Rowell: ...that people get me.
Dave Burgess: Yeah. People have their love languages and all these different things like, and so I have a communication language and it is not email.
Lainie Rowell: Well, I knew you would be generous enough to come on, and it was just a matter of time.
And so actually it was a message that I sent you, not an email that did the trick. So I'm just so happy you're here. Dave, if there is anyone who somehow does not know who you are, I'm going to do a brief introduction and then please feel free to add on. So Dave Burgess is a New York Times bestselling author of Teach Like a Pirate.
He's the co-author of P for Pirate and the co-founder and president of Dave Burgess Consulting Inc. He is also the host of an amazing podcast, the Dave Burgess Show .That barely scratches the surface. Dave, what else do you wanna tell us about yourself?
Dave Burgess: I think that's a good start. Let's just go from there, see how it goes.
Lainie Rowell: Well, see you're so humble because there's, there's so much, and I'm gonna throw this out here right now because I had a chance to see Lauren Kaufman in person a few days ago, and we thought it would be fun to run into a Barnes and Noble and play which of our friends have books in the store?
For the listener, if you're not familiar, it is incredibly hard to get a book in Barnes and Noble occupying shelf space, like they want stuff that flies off the shelf. And so that's what you will find in there. And of course, Teach Like a pirate was in there. And so we had to take a nice little selfie with the book. And then we were talking, and Lauren's like, you know, Dave just created a whole new style of writing in education where, well, this is my paraphrasing, but it feels more like you're sitting with a friend talking about best practices in a much more engaging and interactive way.
Dave Burgess: Well, thank you. You know, that's actually a very intentional part of the brand is that we wanted books, first of all, we wanted to elevate the voices of practitioners, people that are actually out there doing this stuff which is something that I don't think there was a lot of that before.
And then also writing in a much more conversational tone. Like I tell people like, we don't want the doctoral dissertation. We don't want the textbook. We want you to feel like someone who is really excited about what they're doing is sharing it with you. And that they're in a conversation with you.
And that's why, for example, sometimes, especially this time of the year, you'll see pictures of our books. People are reading them like at the beach or poolside. Like you don't read a workbook at the beach, but people will read a DBC book at the beach because it just has a little different feel to it.
And our authors also, we really work on them in maintaining their voice in the projects and a lot of education books today. No shade intended, but if you put them all out on a table and you shuffle the names around on the bottom, in a lot of cases it wouldn't matter. It's written third person, formal, academic.
Right. Yeah. But the idea of changing the names on the bottom of our books would be ridiculous because we are inside of our books and we work hard at that. Like Lainie, you are inside of your book. Like Evolving with Gratitude,. You are in there. Your personality, like you could meet you at a conference and you would go up and give you a hug, say hello because you feel like you know Lainie after reading the book and we try to do that as best we can with our projects.
Lainie Rowell: You do it so beautifully. And like Lauren pointed out in our conversation is you made this happen and the legacy of how this has just rippled through, I mean, how many books is it now, Dave? How many books have you put out into the world through DBC?
Dave Burgess: So I think between DBC and IMPress we're probably up around 200 or so.
Lainie Rowell: That's amazing.
Dave Burgess: I wanna go back to one thing you said too, Lainie.
Yeah. And that is that you mentioned the Barnes and Noble thing. That was one of the things that people told me. When I made the decision to start DBC, they said, if you do this, you will never see your book on a bookshelf. If you do it yourself, you cannot get into a big house bookseller without some gatekeeper like knocking that door down for you and so if you decide to do that, that's what the publishers told me. Like, you will never, ever see your book on like a Barnes and Noble shelf. And in that picture that you tweeted out there were four DBC Inc. books inside that picture. And if you've been in a Barnes & Noble lately, you know that the education section has shrunk and shrunk and shrunk.
And it's down to like one little case basically you know, a few shelves on one little row where it used to be a big giant thing. And so in that one little case there, you know, we had four books and it's a home-based business, you know, running it from the house. So that's something that I'm super proud of, that I didn't let those naysayers and the people that tried to be negative, like, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you do this yourself.
I didn't let that stop what we were trying to do and the vision for the company.
Lainie Rowell: It is tremendous. And let's just say when Lauren and I are taking that picture, it's like a selfie. We're in tight. You're right. It was exactly one case for the education section. And I remember where we're going and looking.
I'm like, where's the big sign for education? And it was tucked on the side and it was one case. And it was just that one section that you saw four DBC books. There were more DBC books and I should have taken a better shot where we got 'em all, but just a tremendous, tremendous thing that you have created here.
And so thank you for not only creating this new style of writing, but giving us all the permission to do it. And so I am truly honored to be part of the DBC family through IMPress, and I just, I just love that we get to have these books out there, like you said, by practitioners, for practitioners in that conversational tone.
It is something you wanna read on the beach and not something you feel like, Ugh, I have to read this, I get to read this.
Dave Burgess: I'll tell you a quick story, Lainie, I had a conversation one time that was kind of confrontational with the person who we had turned down for a project, by the way, obviously, we can't do all the books. And so some of the projects that we have turned down are just absolutely incredible. I love those people. I love their work. I love every single thing about them. We just can't do everything right. There was some reason why we couldn't do this. So I always kind of like, oh gosh, I don't want someone to think that we don't appreciate what they do as an educator 'cause we didn't do the book. I love everything about what they do and we just literally can't do all the books. But anyway, this person was very upset about it and what they had written was basically a doctoral dissertation. And I'm gonna tell you that I think this person was brilliant, like legitimately probably a genius.
And their work was genius. And I was trying to explain to them why we didn't publish the book. And he said, you don't understand, this is my life's work. And it was amazing. But I'm like, look, at some point you're gonna have to decide something. Are you writing this book to try to sound smart?
Are you writing this book to change the world? Because if you're writing this book to change the world, you need to write it so that people will read it and they will use it. So someone will publish your book and it's gonna sit pretty on a bookshelf. That's not the book we want. We want the book that is in someone's bag because they're taking it back and forth to work.
We want the book that has post-it notes sticking outta the top. We want the book with highlights in it. We want the book with the underlined stuff and the notes in the margin 'cause people are actually implementing the ideas so inspiration without implementation is a waste.
Don't just inspire me. I wanna know what I can do different next week when I get into my classroom or when I get into my principalship or whatever it might be. And so we want those real practical books that get used, not the book that looks beautiful on the shelf.
Lainie Rowell: I think that's so important that, do you want this to be the book that gets published or the book that gets read?
I'm paraphrasing obviously what you said, but I just think that's so important and something that you constantly remind me of as I think about the stuff that I put out there, it's not just because I wanna get more content out, more content out, it's like, what am I adding value with?
And so trying to, to be really intentional with that. And so I thank you for inspiring that, for giving us all that permission to do that conversational, really practical, actionable. It's inspiring, but we can do this and I really appreciate that. Now hopefully I've embarrassed you enough.
If not, I'll try for it later. But I will get to a first question for the pod, and we can take this in whatever direction you want to go, Dave. But what does gratitude mean to you?
Dave Burgess: Okay, so here's the way I think I'm gonna tackle this. I'm gonna try to sell you something. Okay, so I'm a reasonable salesperson.
I've sold a lot of things sold probably all in, all told over a million books and speaking different things. So I want you to be on alert, because I'm not gonna tell you the price until the end. Okay? So, I want you to have all your defenses up because I'm pretty persuasive.
Okay? So here's what I'm gonna try to sell you. If you'll do this, you will immediately feel better. It'll have a positive impact on your life. Not only will it have a positive impact on your life, but every single person that you do this with, it'll have a positive impact on their life too. It will change your day and it'll change their day too.
Not only will it change their day, but the very mere fact that it changes their day, they will go off into their interactions and change other people's lives too. And it's gonna have a rippling, exponential effect of a positive nature in the world. If you'll just agree to do this. And it's easy, it's simple.
You could do it every day. But here's the problem. I'm gonna have to eventually tell you the price. It's free. Are you gonna do this thing? Are you gonna buy this Lainie?
Lainie Rowell: I'm sold.
Dave Burgess: That's gratitude.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah.
Dave Burgess: That's gratitude. It's not only will it make you feel better when you extend gratitude to someone else, it makes them feel better too, and they go off and it has that exponential ripple effect.
So how is this not something that we don't intentionally make a part of our lives? It has to be there. Showing thankfulness and appreciation for the blessings of your life and the blessings that other people are in your life. It's like, I talked about this with kindness one time, called it the impossible gift.
It's an impossible gift. What do you mean? It helps everybody and it's free and it's simple to give. Like why are we giving it all the time? So that's what gratitude is.
Lainie Rowell: I love that you hone in on the, obviously all the positive benefits, but also the contagiousness of it, right? It's something that you do for someone else and it's gonna pay itself forward, and that's really pretty special.
And, I like that, the impossible gift. Ooh, you just named this episode.
Dave Burgess: And, and that's something you talk about a lot, Lainie with the social contagion, when you're putting this kind of energy out into the world It reverberates, right?
Yeah. That, that, that frequency, it's, it's amazing.
Lainie Rowell: And I see you do that in every aspect of your work. I mean, if anyone has been in one of your keynotes, it's contagious. No one is immune. You are going to feel that energy. You're gonna get all excited. And I wonder if you could help me think through this, well, why don't more people do this?
What do you think some of those barriers are? What's keeping some from doing this?
Dave Burgess: I think that a lot of people have a little bit of a negativity bias. Mm-hmm. And this is, this is kind of a cliche, but I'll give you the example 'cause it'll just resonate immediately so much with teachers is if you have students review your class and write things about your class we all know exactly where I'm going with this. 99 kids can say it was the best class they've ever had in their life, and that it changed their whole world and they love everything about you.
One kid. In the midst of maybe 10 compliments says one thing. That's negative or bad. What are we gonna perseverate over? What are we gonna really walk away with knocking around in our head? Is it gonna be that one comment? Right? So we have this negativity bias, and that's why it, it has to be such an intentional thing that you that you look for these areas of positivity in your life.
And you, you get to do that. You are the producer, you are the director. I just did a podcast recently about don't buy tickets to bad movies. Right? And the idea was like, Hey, if you go to a movie and it's horrible, you don't like it, it makes you feel bad, you're upset about it, and you walk out even almost feeling a little traumatized, right?
And then the next day you're trying to decide what to do. Are you ever going back to that movie? Of course you're not going back to that movie, right? You would never buy a ticket to the same bad movie again. But we do that with our brains all the time. Something happened in our life and it was negative, and we can feel bad whenever we go back there and think about it.
And we just go back and we just rub over that over and over and over again in our brain. And it's like, sort of like when someone has like maybe a, a problem in their mouth with like a tooth missing or something like that, and they run their tongue back and forth over like it's. We do that all the time, and that's what we do with some of the traumatic things that happened in our lives.
And so you own the theater, you direct the camera, you are the one that decides what plays in your mind. And Marcus Aurelius said that the things that you think about determine the quality of your mind, your soul takes on the color of your thoughts. And so that intentionality is something I think that is missing for a lot of people with gratitude and why they don't do it.
Lainie Rowell: It's so empowering the way you're talking about it, that you are the producer, you're the director, you own the theater, and I think that's really important because I think there's times where we feel totally out of control. And so I hear you saying, well, we have so much more control than we realize.
And so I appreciate that a ton. That's the power of gratitude. That's the power of kindness. The power of hope. There's so many things that we actually have a lot more control over that we tend to think we do. I wonder, could you share with us some of the ways that you experience and express gratitude in your life. And I will just say, and again, I know I keep coming back to your work as a publisher and a speaker, but I think it is a form of gratitude that you are amplifying the voices of other educators.
You could have written a New York Times bestselling book and been done. You did not need to go on to do this for others. It costs a lot of money to produce a book. I don't know if people understand that. I'm just gonna put that out there for you. If anyone has ever looked into self-publishing, it is very expensive.
So when DBC or any publisher for that matter says, we will publish your book, they are right then assuming financial responsibility and it's a big price. And then they have to hope to make that back. So to me that is one way that you show gratitude is that you are amplifying the voices of other educators. I mean, you really had to pave that road that was not something that was handed to you and, and you are offering it to other educators.
So I'll just put that other, I think that's one way you're doing it.
Dave Burgess: I tell people all the time, I wasn't trying to write the encyclopedia teaching. I tried to write some things that I thought were useful and successful in my classroom and there are lots of things that are not in my book that are unbelievable teaching ideas.
And the reason they're not on the book is, first of all, it can't be 800 pages long. And also because maybe I wasn't very good at them. Maybe that's why I signed the book because like I wasn't very good at it and I wanted it to write it from a very authentic place. If it's in the book, I did it and I found it to be successful.
If it's not in the book, it's not saying I don't think it's a great idea. Maybe I just didn't do it successfully. And so I knew that I wanted to try to amplify the voices of other people and to kind of amplify my impact in the world. I had built a platform, I had gained some notoriety and so, Then try to transforming what I do to being less about my project and being more about using my platform to help other people spread their messages was an important thing.
I think another way that I like to show gratitude and I work with authors are showing gratitude, and this is something that you're amazing at by the way, is that is interacting with your readers. Now, I used to be more relentless about this than I was, but when I first started, lemme just tell you something.
If you tweeted something about Teach Like a Pirate, I appeared so quickly in your feed that you thought maybe I was looking over your shoulder when you were typing it. Like you look behind you saying like, is he watching me right now? How did a response get in here that fast? Like I just tweeted this person who I don't know, some author on the internet, right?
And I would be so fast into that feed saying like, oh my gosh, thank you for reading Teach Like a Pirate, hashtag Gratitude and something like this. And that's something that we really work with our authors too, and what sometimes authors don't understand. I'm not saying that this is necessarily deserved, but it's the truth.
The truth is, is that if you are an author and you have written a book that someone thinks maybe had an impact on their lives and they reach out and say something about it when you respond, that is a huge moment for that person. They're just putting a tweet out into the ether, right? And like, and all of a sudden the author of the book, they just read, shows up on their feed and is talking to them and interact with them and is showing some gratitude and thankfulness for them helping to say something or saying something nice about the message. That's actually a bigger moment than probably is deserved to be, but it is. And so that's something that I think is really important. Some people say, I don't feel like I should go in there all the time and talk to them 'cause it makes it seem like I'm just like all about myself. Like, no, no, no. That's not about you. That's about them. Imagine you say something nice to somebody and they just walked by. They heard you, but didn't even like acknowledge you and just walked by. That would be rude. Well, the same thing is true on the internet.
Someone says something nice about you if you just scroll past that and don't say anything, that's actually kind of arrogant, right? That's a big thing they just did for you. And so you should interact with that person and want to be a part of this community of people who are reading your project.
I think that's an important way to show gratitude is as an author.
Lainie Rowell: I love that. Anytime anyone mentions anything about Evolving with Gratitude and Bold Gratitude, I am trying to catch onto that because that means they're with me in the message.
They're supporting this thing that I am super passionate about and I absolutely wanna connect with them and see how we can continue this work together. So I am always very, very grateful for that. And then also another way you amplify the voices of the authors and those who are reading and interacting is you are retweeting, you're commenting.
When someone's talking about a DBC book, you find it, it's like a superpower you have, you are able to find, oh, they're talking about Lead with Collaboration. Thank you for sharing. And you're right there with it and that is something that I am just in awe of and I'm very grateful for as an author, but also as a reader of these books.
Like, oh, I didn't even realize that book came out, but I saw it in Dave's feed, look what's available now. So I think that's really helpful.
Dave Burgess: That's something that we focus on too. I mentioned this on a recent podcast that came out. If you think that there's good work in the world to be shared, it's not just okay to share it.
You have a moral imperative to share it. And not only do you have a moral imperative to share it, but you have a moral imperative to get good at sharing it, to put in the time, to put in the energy, to build the skillset, to learn how do I find all these tweets about the DBC inc books? Well, I look for it, right?
I'm searching, I'm constantly looking for ways to interact with the readership. Not because it's going to sell more books, which it does by the way. Because I am also authentically grateful for the fact that someone has spent their money, not only their money, but their time, picking up one of our books, one of our projects, and investing their time into it.
And that's something I don't take for granted ever. I'll never take for granted the fact that these things cost money. These things take time. And so I want to try to really authentically interact with that person and let them know that we appreciate that.
Lainie Rowell: And authentic is a key word there because that is exactly what I see. I see you very authentic in your appreciation of what people are putting out there, the authors, the readers, everyone. It just is so genuine. It really is. I get my opportunity here to record saying as many nice things as I can, and I just want you to know that I see this and I was astounded by it.
From the author side, also the reader side. It just shows how much you value educators and the work that they do in every role that they have. So I appreciate it and it's important to share it, it's important to share it as best as possible.
Dave Burgess: So Lainie, I wanna tell you something that I'm working on today.
Lainie Rowell: Please.
Dave Burgess: I'm working on this thing that we talked about when you were on my podcast. You can find that episode by the way. Lainie was on The Dave Burgess Show. It's fantastic. And that is indebtedness where we have this tendency to want to like always deflect and so that was one of the things I decided, I'm gonna work on this in this podcast today. Like, I know Lainie's gonna say these good things, nice things because you always do. And I'm going to really work on sitting with it and be thankful for it and just appreciate it and try not to feel this great sense of indebtedness.
I'm working on this thing that we talked about when we talked on my podcast.
Lainie Rowell: I struggle with it to this day. I think I'm getting better, but I do hope you get a chance to sit with it 'cause there is so much goodness that not just me, that so many people see. And there's so much over a million books out there, a million copies sold thanks to this legacy that you've created and it just keeps going. Just keeps getting better and better. So I'm very excited. I know we have new DBC books coming out all the time, and I'm gonna give you a chance to share for those who may not be directly connected to you. There's a lot of people already connected to you, but just in case they're not you can share how to connect with you.
But first, would you like to give a shout out?
Dave Burgess: Yeah, so it's funny, I ran across something before this that I think it does tie into your message so well. And Jack Kornfield has this quote and he says, if your compassion does not include yourself, it is incomplete.
Okay. And I think there's lots of people who, you know, are very compassionate for other people, but sometimes they have a difficult time directing that same compassion inward. Right. And same thing with gratitude. And I was watching this Snoop Dogg, of course, you know, we have to reference Snoop Dogg whenever we can.
So Snoop Dogg was getting a star on the walk of fame in Hollywood and he gave his acceptance speech. He was thanking people and he said, and last but not least, I want to thank me. And then he says, I wanna thank me for all the hard work. I want to thank me for not taking any days off. I wanna thank me for believing in myself.
I want, and he like goes down through all these different things that he was thankful for. And I, it is just hearing Snoop Dogg do it is just like, It's so like on point, right? But I do think that's something, you know, when we think about gratitude, we usually think about sharing it with other people.
But I do think, you know, we should also focus some of that Gratitude towards ourself. Like Jack Kornfield said, compassion, if it doesn't include you, it's not complete. But I won't use me. My gratitude ... we have this multimillion dollar posting company, but it's a skeleton crew.
Like DBC Inc right now is run by three people. So there's me, but then my Gratitude will be focused towards my amazing partners in this. My team teammates Tara Martin. Who does all the director of publishing and does marketing and communication with authors and all these different things. If you see me do some cool graphic, it's probably made by Tara.
And in addition to being a speaker and author herself, and then also behind the scenes, the person that you never see, but is really responsible for making sure that we're always moving forward and getting the books where they need to go and getting things up, files uploaded, and distribution channels in line and all the different royalties.
Like everything that really makes DBC run as a business is Wendy Van Dyke. So Wendy Van Dyke and Tara Martin, DBC does not run without those two. And so that's where I like to send my gratitude.
Lainie Rowell: I love that and I have so much love and appreciation for both of those people. Obviously you, Dave. Hopefully I've properly expressed that, but Tara, who actually contributed with Tisha Richmond to Evolving with Gratitude and Wendy is constantly doing things in the background and with the release of Bold Gratitude, this, journal, which is a very different thing, you all kind of jumped in and like make sure and do this and this and this.
Making sure that there was no stone left unturned. And so I appreciate that 'cause there's so much that goes on behind the scenes. And even going back to your reference of Snoop and his acceptance speech and thanking himself, I think there could be a perception of Snoop as he's very chill.
This guy is relaxed, it seems like, but he is just crushin it, doing so many things and there's a lot of people who it might look like success has just kind of fallen in their lap, but they're actually just doing so much work constantly and it's just a good thing to appreciate that in yourself and then to also acknowledge that in others.
And so, yes, the DBC team is very near and dear to my heart, and obviously IMPress as well. Dave, do you wanna say for those who are listening and don't quite know how it works with DBC and IMPress, You'll say it better than I do, but what that relationship is.
Dave Burgess: Yeah.
It's a fantastic collaboration between Paige Couros and George Couros and the DBC team. And so DBC Inc published The Innovator's Mindset by George. It's one of our flagship books, one of our most successful books of all time. And one of the things that George wanted to do with Paige was to be able to kind of curate his own line of projects but without all the headache of doing everything.
And so the production team of DBC Inc does the behind the scenes work on IMPress books. And so I'm co-owner with George and Paige of IMPress books. It's sort of like a subsidiary of DBC Inc. But George and Paige do the primary curation and development of that line of books and those titles.
Lainie Rowell: So Paige has spent a lot of time with me, especially through the stages of development for Evolving of Gratitude and Bold Gratitude and just really everyone, DBC, IMPress. They've all just been so lovely to work with. So I know you can't publish all the books that come to you, but for those who are thinking about writing a book, you would be very blessed to be a part of the DBC team. So I encourage you to, to put your best foot forward, and if that works out, that would be a great blessing for you. So with that, Dave, how do people connect with you in case they're not already connected?
Dave Burgess: So I'm easy to find if you're on Twitter or X I should say, if you're on X I'm @BurgessDave, that's the first time I said that. My name just flipped around Burgess Dave, if you're an Instagram person, I'm @DBC_Inc. We're at daveburgessconsulting.com. And I have the Dave Burgess Show podcast. And I am a beginning TikTok person. @Pirate.Teacher I only have two posts up, but hopefully more soon.
Lainie Rowell: You're way ahead of me. I have an account and I believe it is empty, and then there's like threads too, which is also, I think I have one post in there.
Dave Burgess: I haven't got over there yet.
Lainie Rowell: Yeah, I mean, I got my number and then I think I'm good. There's so many spaces and places and I wanna connect with everyone, it's just finding the time to do it in a million different places. That's hard. Right.
Dave Burgess: Yeah.
Lainie Rowell: Okay, my friend, I am so thankful that you made the time to come on here and you're very generous with your time and you really have supported me in countless ways, and so I thank you for that and I really, again appreciate you joining me on the pod.
Dave Burgess: Hey, it was an honor to be on the show and we are so proud to be able to publish not only Evolving with Gratitude, but the Bold Gratitude journal too.
Which is just so fun to see people working with right now. So thanks so much for the work you put out into the world and we love having you part of the family.
Lainie Rowell: Well, thank you. Alright, my friends, have a great day, night, wherever you are, whatever you're doing, enjoy.