Shownotes:
Are you ready to discover how gratitude can reshape your perspective and enrich your daily life? Tune in now for a thought-provoking and heartwarming discussion with our special guest, Kevin Brown. He'll take us on a journey through his life, from educational leadership to embracing gratitude as a way of living. This conversation is bound to leave you with a grateful heart and a new outlook on challenges. Don't miss this joyful discussion that will undoubtedly leave you with a smile on your face and a heart full of gratitude.
Shared on this episode:
About Our Guest:
Dr. Brown is a 33-year, award-winning public school teacher, principal, superintendent, and advocate, spending the past five years leading TASA, an organization that supports school leaders in Texas. A product of public education with many family members who have been lifelong educators, he is grateful to serve the 5.4 million students of Texas, the leaders who support them, the communities whose futures depend on them, as well as the future of our nation's democracy, which depends upon an educated citizenry. He is a believer, practitioner and witness to the power of gratitude.
Website: tasanet.org
X/Twitter: @KBrownTASA
About Lainie:
Lainie Rowell is a bestselling author, award-winning educator, and TEDx speaker. She is dedicated to human flourishing, focusing on community building, social-emotional learning, and honoring what makes each of us unique and dynamic through learner-driven design. She earned her degree in psychology and went on to earn both a post-graduate credential and a master's degree in education. An international keynote speaker, Lainie has presented in 41 states as well as in dozens of countries across 4 continents. As a consultant, Lainie’s client list ranges from Fortune 100 companies like Apple and Google to school districts and independent schools. Learn more at linktr.ee/lainierowell.
Website - LainieRowell.com
Twitter - @LainieRowell
Instagram - @LainieRowell
Evolving with Gratitude, the book is available here! And now, Bold Gratitude: The Journal Designed for You and by You is available too!
Both Evolving with Gratitude & Bold Gratitude have generous bulk pricing for purchasing 10+ copies delivered to the same location.🙌
Just fill out the forms linked above and someone will get back to you ASAP!
Transcript:
Lainie Rowell: [00:00:00] Hello, friends. I have already been belly laughing with my new friend Dr. Kevin Brown. Welcome, Kevin. Thank you for being here.
Kevin Brown: Hey, I'm so honored to be a part of this and excited for the conversation with you, Lainie.
I'm a big fan.
Lainie Rowell: Oh, you're very kind, and I have to give a huge shout out to Dr. Jill Siller, who if anyone was listening to her episode, which if they didn't, they should go back and listen to. It was somewhat recent. She recommended you as a guest, and when Jill says something, I listen.
Kevin Brown: Well, I do too, Lainie.
That's good advice for both of us, and she's an amazing human being and a wonderful friend and a great colleague, and I'm honored to work with her every single day.
Lainie Rowell: You two together, what a powerhouse. So I am going to do a little quick intro, Dr. Brown has been in education for 33 years. He is an award winning public school teacher, principal, superintendent. He's done it all. For the last five years, I believe his sixth year, he can correct me if I'm wrong, but he's been leading TASA, an organization that supports leaders in Texas.
He is grateful to serve. Friends, this is a really good number. 5. 4 million students of Texas and all those who support the 5. 4 million students. So, that's just a start. Kevin, please tell us more about you.
Kevin Brown: Well thanks, Lainie. And it's really been the joy of my life to be in public education and to serve people in all of those roles.
I've loved every one of them and, and learned so much and, and been such a better person because of it. In the organization I serve now we do a lot of professional development for school leaders. We publish a couple of magazines. We provide member support to everybody. So, And we advocate for public education at the Capitol, which isn't always an easy thing to do in Texas, but it's a really important and critical thing to do, and I work with an amazing team and, you know, one of the things that you said, I've had some individual accolades along the way, but the thing that I'm most grateful for and honored is when my school district was named the best in Texas when I was superintendent, and it was the product, I think, of this great team that was together for a really long time we had a great board, teachers, leadership team, we really listened to students in the community, and that sustained effort over a long period of time, it was this great team celebration, and the neat thing about that is, That team still, they've taken it a whole nother level and and continue to do amazing work.
Lainie Rowell: Well, best in Texas. That is no small thing. That is a very big state. Not only geographically, there's a lot of people in it. And so, best in Texas. That is amazing. And I love how you're honoring the team. And one thing that affirms this best in Texas is that they've continued to improve and you're saying that they're taking it even to the next level and so that always reminds me of that Jim Collins level five leader, right, is that they make sure it's continuing to succeed and improve beyond their tenure.
And so I hear that. .
Kevin Brown: Yes, I'm really proud of them. It was an honor to be with them. And I'm with this amazing team here at TASA that just is so committed to public education, committed to serving leaders. And we work with the most amazing people. You know, school leaders are incredible.
They, they have this amazing sense of mission. They work incredibly hard in spite of tremendous obstacles, and so we get to be there to encourage them, to support them, to celebrate their successes, and to be with them, too, when they have hard days. And that's a real honor to be a part of. .
Lainie Rowell: I can't wait to hear more about your work.
And I would love to get that started with just this question, this very open question where there's no right or wrong answer. And that is, what does gratitude mean to you?
Kevin Brown: You know, for me, Lainie I think it's an intentional practice of recognizing and honoring the people around us. Their attributes, the events that happen in our lives the things that are, you know, both big and small in our lives that occur every day.
I think it's even recognizing how negative events in our lives, and even people in our lives sometimes can actually ultimately be real blessings. And. You know, in some ways, for me, it's the embodiment of our love of life and everything that comes into each day. It's a recognition there's a deeper meaning than just that drudgery of day to day existence.
It gives us our lives meaning, it brings happiness it makes life worth living.
Lainie Rowell: I really appreciate that you're explaining it in this very rich and full way that encompasses not just the sunshine and roses and flowery fields and all of that, but you're talking about these negative events and negative people even actually can serve a purpose and turn out to be a blessing.
And how, you know, I was talking about this with my daughter in the car yesterday, that sometimes a curse turns out to be a blessing. And it's really, you never know, and it's hard when you're in it, but when you can get to that point where you can acknowledge, appreciate, and I heard you say, you know, intentionally honoring what it is, either the event or who they are, and what it's meaning for your life.
I think that's a really beautiful way to live.
Kevin Brown: Yes, I do too.
Lainie Rowell: So what does this look like in your life? Because, you know, again, Jill, raved and raved about you. And in just a little bit of time that I have now known you, I concur. And she's like, you have to talk to Kevin Brown because this is someone who lives in gratitude.
And so I'm so excited. Please share practices. And even if you're up for it, maybe how you came to appreciate gratitude, which sounds redundant, but it's not.
Kevin Brown: No, it's not at all. I think, you know, for me, I think the Gratitude came very naturally for me because both of my parents are people who really have gratitude in their lives.
I lost my mom five years ago but she's actually in my gratitude journal every day because I got to have 52 years with my mom. And both my parents have had struggles in their lives. It hadn't been perfect or easy and they divorced when I was a child but I saw them go through some really difficult times and yet always find those silver linings, always recognize in each day that there was blessings and that I was one of those for them and they were for me.
But my mom never met a stranger. She would see people. She would you know, comment on things. She just made people feel so good about themselves. And my father has the same knack for them. I'm very close to my, oldest sister. We talk multiple times a week. She's an educator herself in Colorado and her husband had a pretty severe stroke when he was 31 and they were doing volunteer work in Thailand.
He had a severe stroke. We didn't know if he would survive and it's had a pretty profound impact on his physical abilities. But he's been this inspiration for me because he's been able to find real joy in life and meaning. And, and not that long ago, this summer, he said, you know, if I had to do it all over again, I don't know if I would have prevented the stroke from happening. I think my life is richer because of what happened. And he focuses on what he can do instead of what he can't. And he said, you know, I'm such an intellectual person, but I think I wouldn't have gone that direction in my life had I not had this stroke.
And So that's a real inspiration for me. But, you know, every morning I wake up and I have a gratitude, you know, kind of a ritual that I do every morning and, and I wake up and make my cup of coffee. I have a, a beautiful golden retriever who's my, my buddy and he comes and he wants a little bit of love.
He'll come and I pet on him a little bit. I have my cup of coffee and I keep a gratitude journal every day and it's kind of divided into two big things. One of them is kind of the big rocks in my life. So it's my family. I have an amazing family that I adore and I name them all. I have a lot of really dear lifelong friends, as well as some newer friends in my life, and I think of them, my colleagues, and what a blessing they are to me, and I name every one of my staff members so I can visualize what they bring to my life, but also do a 24 hour gratitude list, which is what happened in the last 24 hours, that I may have missed if I didn't really take the time to observe.
In my gratitude journal this morning, you know, just to, to give you an idea we had a rainstorm here in Austin which hadn't happened much at all. And so that was in my gratitude journal. And instead of just, ignoring it, I stood at the window and got to watch it this morning, which was wonderful.
I got to pick up my daughter at the airport and have a nice conversation. I had that great cup of coffee. I had a walk with my dog. A nice conversation with a colleague who needed help. A good workout. And I actually ran into a cashier at a store. who was just dispensing wisdom to everybody who came through.
She was just this joyous person, and I decided to take time and actually visit with her and, and honor her. And I said, you know, you're just here, you're joyful, you're giving all this advice to everybody. And she said, oh, it's my grandmother just coming out of my mouth every day. And I said, well, your grandmother probably picked all that up from somebody else too, but thanks for making my life better today.
And those are a little cheesy things, maybe, I don't know, but it really means a lot to me and it makes my life, I think, richer by doing that. I do a little meditation or prayer every morning and then I move on through the day.
Lainie Rowell: I'm actually just taking notes because there were so many things I wanted to, to remember to talk about.
And as you're describing your gratitude rituals. Which, by the way, I love the word rituals. And you're talking about how you do these two big rocks.
So, I really love that you talk about that you, every single day, acknowledge, name, honor, your family, your friends, these, really important things in your life. I've heard some people say, Oh, I don't like to, you know, just write the same thing every day. But I really think it's about how you approach it.
And if you're really just writing my family, my friends or something like that, that is really not going to add a lot of value. But the way I hear you describing it is there's a nuance to it that's critical. And that it's that you're really listing them out, the individuals, and you're taking the time to think about what a blessing they are in your life.
And it's not becoming this rote, I do it every day. But you have made it something that's a ritual that's really important. I love that.
Kevin Brown: Well, and Lainie, one of those things is, you know, it's easy in our jobs, and educators feel this, because you're in the dailyness of your life.
If you're a teacher, you're going through the day It can be chaotic. The wheels can come off. If you're a principal or superintendent, oftentimes it's what you didn't plan on that happens during the day. But to be able to separate yourself a little bit from that and remind yourself, you know, I'm in a profession that has real deep meaning to it.
And it's critical for our society. It's critical to the children in our schools. What an honor to be in this profession. And yeah, of course we're going to have bad days. There's going to be things that, that happen because we chose to be in this profession. And with that comes the slings and arrows of whatever.
But I would prefer to be dealing with this than something that didn't have meaning and didn't make a difference in the lives of other people. And then I think of the people that made a difference in my life and that they probably had really bad days. I have this vision that, oh, they were just perfect and everything went well.
Of course it didn't. They had really hard days, but they made a difference in my life and that's enabled me to help others.
Lainie Rowell: So as you're talking about that, this profound profession that we have that is so impactful, it always reminds me when I talk about happiness and Laurie Santos gives a great definition, in her words from the social scientists, happy in your life and happy with your life.
So happy in your life, you're having these positive emotions at least more often than not. And it gets tricky saying positive and negative emotions. I think pleasant and unpleasant is maybe a little bit more precise. But happy in your life and happy with your life And I always feel like as educators, we have a leg up because that happy with your life is that meta stepping back and this is what my life is about.
And I feel like as educators, we have this calling, this purpose in our profound profession that even though not everything is perfect in our life, we can step back and go. Okay, I get to make a difference. And that's what I hear you saying.
Kevin Brown: Absolutely. Look, I go through negative emotions like anybody, you know, I've had personal loss in my life.
I felt sadness, deep, profound sadness. I felt anger, resentment, hurt, all of those kinds of feelings I've had in my life. And every human being has those, but we can dwell in that. We can let that define us, or we can be intentional and, and say, you know, we're not going to let that define us. Everybody has that in their lives.
What is going to define me is I'm going to respond to those things with kindness and love. With generosity, with fairness and I'm going to recognize the good things in my life and the good things that come into my life and that I'm able to give to others. And for me that, that does provide a tremendous amount of happiness even though not every moment or every day is, is, oh, this is just great, you know, it's not.
But it gives that deeper meaning to us and helps sustain through difficult times if we can focus on those blessings that happen every day. And I think that when things are the most difficult, It's the most important for us to take that daily time and ritual to reconnect to this, to help us get through it quicker, to short circuit what might be a difficult cycle of, of emotions.
Lainie Rowell: My mind is blown that your ritual and the two ways you do them so perfectly align with this idea of happiness being happy in your life and with your life, right? Because your first one is the big rocks and that would be what I would consider with your life, right? The people that are constantly in your life that you are so grateful for, your profession.
These are like those, that first bucket you said, the big rocks. And then to me, your second bucket, this in the last 24 hours list, that's your in your life. This is the stuff that the moment to moment, this is what's guiding your your emotions, and you're being super intentional, you have empowered yourself to control that through your gratitude practices, through that prism of gratitude that you see the world through.
Is that fair to say?
Kevin Brown: It is. Yeah, it is. And, and, and look, I'm not perfect at it, but I do it probably five to six days a week. There's usually a day or two where I, I get thrown off, but it's the times when I get away from it that I find myself struggling the most. And so if I can come back to that, re center my life, re center my day, be intentional about how I'm going to approach the day even really think in terms of, okay, here's the day that's coming before me.
What is it that I'm hoping to be able to embody during the day? I'm going into a difficult meeting. I want to listen. I want to be patient. You know, I want to be intentional with the words I use. Whatever that is that comes to you. If I'm a teacher and I've got a particularly challenging student, how can I approach that student with empathy and with kindness and in a way that maybe I can help move the needle with that child that day and make a difference in their lives.
Lainie Rowell: And it's fair to say that you are a very busy person and yet you're setting aside this time and I sometimes wonder if people think like, oh, this is an extra thing to do, but these are small yet profound moves, wouldn't you say?
Kevin Brown: I definitely would. And I think anybody that struggles with time and we all do, and you're right, I'm extremely busy.
And when I was a superintendent, I was extremely busy. And, you know, every step of my life has been, I really suggest a book called Essentialism by McKeown who talks about, Finding those things that are most essential in your life, putting your efforts and your time and energy into those, and stripping away the things that aren't essential and for me, things like watching TV are not that essential to me and not that TV is a terrible thing or anything, but, if you're spending many hours watching TV, instead of taking care of yourself, doing your gratitude journal, exercising, spending time with family or whatever.
You know, you strip those things away and focus on the things that are the most important to you in your personal life and in your profession.
Lainie Rowell: I can't wait to check that book out because I do think that's something I'm trying to be really intentional with in my life is prioritizing those big rocks, right?
That's like the metaphor, the mayonnaise jar metaphor, right? Like you put the big rocks in the jar first and then you fill it with the small pebbles and the sand and if you do that it all fits, but if you start with the little things it's not going to all fit. So I really appreciate that. I want to touch back to you.
You talked about your brother in law going through, I think it's fair to say, a traumatic event.
Kevin Brown: Yes.
Lainie Rowell: And being on the other side of it and saying, you know what, I don't think I would change anything. There's actually a practice called mental subtraction or counterfactual thinking that I encourage people to go through.
It's one that I use a lot in workshops and it has this really profound impact because we don't always think about these sliding door moments when if something had gone differently, how my life would look right now, and so, I think that's a really interesting point, and I appreciate that as you're talking through everything, you're acknowledging the challenge, acknowledging the hard, but also saying, but yet, look, we get these choices, we get these options, and that's how we can really make a difference in our lives. So I didn't, didn't mean to to Birdwalk too much, but I just, it's a really, really good practice.
Kevin Brown: But along with that, let me just share with you that, I used to define myself as a younger person as an athlete.
And I have had now nine surgeries, about to have ten orthopedic surgeries, had a lot of chronic pain in my life and early on, I was not allowed to play sports starting in middle school, and I thought, you know, that was my defining thing and it went away from me for a while but that pushed me towards music.
I ended up being a three time All State trumpet player. I went into college on a music scholarship, met all kinds of new people, had leadership opportunities as the president of the UT band. I would not be where I am today had I not had those injuries early on. Now eventually I got to play sports again, but by then I defined my life in a different way.
And I remember turning to my brother in law, when I was going to have spinal surgery and I was really feeling sorry for myself. And he said, you need to focus on what you can do and not what you can't do. So what can you do? And dig in deep on that. And I'm a big believer. I love Ryan Holiday and the Daily Stoic and I've read The Obstacle Is The Way, which is one of my favorite books that I read recently. He really talks about that.
And Seneca, one of the old ancient philosophers said, a good person dyes events with his own color and turns whatever happens to his own benefit. Laura Ingalls Wilder said there is good in anything if we look. And if we can approach life in that way and approach our jobs in that way, I just think it makes all the difference in our ability to do great work on behalf of other people.
Lainie Rowell: I so appreciate you sharing all of that wisdom. You've given us books to read. I'm excited about that. And there is such a thing as social and emotional contagion and when you are doing these practices, when you're living your life in this way, we not only positively impact our life, we positively impact the lives of the people around us.
And not in a way that denies people their feelings, it's in a way that this is what's working for me, and this is how I'm going to live, and people will naturally catch it.
Kevin Brown: Well, I agree with you, and I think, Lainie, that, and this is something for school leaders out there, and of course teachers are leaders in their classroom, and principals are leaders in their campus, superintendents in their district, and so forth, but, we don't spend enough time celebrating and honoring and showing gratitude for our students, for our teachers, for our communities.
We all want to be part of a winning team. We all want to be part of something bigger than ourselves. And I feel like one way to define culture in your classroom, your school district, so forth, is by identifying what's important in your community to your school district, and then honoring and celebrating the work that people do around it.
And that should be the majority of what you do instead of coming in and saying, Oh, our test scores are bad, or we got to improve this, or we're not doing this well. And we used to say, our work is to design engaging experiences for students that result in profound learning for life. And so every day we tried to honor teachers who were doing those things.
So a teacher took a bad lesson plan that they had maybe it was a worksheet or something, they redesigned it into something that was really unique and wonderful. We go in take a video, talk to the kids, talk to the teacher, talk to the parents, and then honor them at a board meeting.
We started every staff meeting and we do this at TASA. Every time we have a staff meeting, we start, we spend a good half hour of our time honoring the work that people have done and allowing our staff to honor each other. We call it staff shout outs. And that helps build culture, but it also makes people feel like they're part of the team.
And in this day and age of shortage of everybody, you know, teachers and so forth, great people have options. They can go where they want to go, and we have to be able to create the environment and the culture. Where they want to be. And that's one way to draw them in is by really honoring their work and empowering them in their work and then being their cheerleader.
And I'm not being Pollyanna, I'm being very specific about how we honor them and recognize that. I think everybody wants to be recognized and appreciated for the work they do. We don't pay educators enough, but I think what educators want is a sense of I'm making a difference, and people recognize that I'm making a difference, and so you can set the tone in your school district when you do those, or in your classroom, your community.
Lainie Rowell: That asset based approach is so important, and one of the things that I pulled out as you were giving the example of the teacher, of this lesson wasn't working, and I improved it, and now look at this. To me, that's honoring the growth, too. And that's something that I think we can really all focus in, not because we're not already doing great work, but we're always getting better.
I think that's such an important mindset. Love that. Well, this goes by too fast, of course, as always. So I do want to give you a chance, any last tips that you want to share? You've given us so much, so don't feel like you need to. I can cut this out, but I just wanted to give you a last chance. anything else you want to make sure and get in there.
Kevin Brown: Yeah, you bet. So I have a couple other things that I would recommend to people that they do. And I think It helps other people, but it also helps ourselves. I really make a practice of trying to randomly call family, friends, colleagues, tell them that I love them and I appreciate them and that they mean so much to me.
And I've done that with my former teachers. I brought my first grade teacher to my first convocation when I was the superintendent. I've done that with former teachers. teachers. I even hired one of my favorite teachers and got to honor him a great deal, sending cards out to people. A lot of that is not earth shattering, but also recognizing people and the work they do, even randomly, too often we, we hold back, you know, like this cashier that I saw the other day who just exuded goodness. How many people just walked by her and thought, well, that's really neat, but they didn't say something about it. And to say, you're a joy to be around.
I love that you're doing this. I'm sure it meant something to her. I hope it did, but it also made me feel good. And then I think finding inspiration for ourselves through music, through reading and experiences. You know, hobbies, finding things that are joyful to us. I love to fly, fish, and hike. Those are things I can do.
I'm grateful I can do those things. And I try to find the gratitude in that. And then I think last but not least is, be grateful for yourself. You know, each person has some gifts that they offer to the people around them and owning those, not being shy to say, you know, I'm really good at this or this is something that I can offer to others.
Own it. Enjoy it. And offer it to others to make the world a better place. I think it's something we all should do a better job at, probably.
Lainie Rowell: Well, and you say it's not earth shattering, and I appreciate your humility in that, but we often don't take the time to say the kind words to the cashier, even just listening to the wisdom, and then, you know, thank you for sharing that.
And I have to tell you, because I think you'll appreciate this, I posted on Instagram, I don't know the source at the moment, but it was a graphic that's like, normalize telling your friends you love them, tell them a lot, make it weird. And I just love that idea, because I think there's so often that we think the things, but we don't say the things, because It would feel weird or it would feel out of the norm or isn't this obvious?
I don't need to say this. But we don't always do it, and we need to do it more.
Kevin Brown: We do. Especially men have a hard time saying, I love you showing affection giving each other a hug. You know, men do that awkward double tap hug and that kind of thing. But I tell the men in my life, and there's many of them, colleagues, friends that I love them, I appreciate them.
And I'm going to tell you, it makes my friendships deeper and more meaningful. And I'm honored to have friends that reciprocate and it's, it's just, it's wonderful. It really is.
Lainie Rowell: The double tap hug. Great visual.
And so thank you for all you have shared. Thank you for modeling this, living this, and I know it's spreading to those near and far, in your orbit. And. I would love it if you just took a moment to give a shout out.
Kevin Brown: I would. My sister, Heather Carroll, who is a educator in Colorado, and I could do a million people, but she's my oldest sister.
We're extremely close and anything that happens in my life, I have to share with her and vice versa. And she sees the good in me, and oftentimes when I don't. And another is a lifelong friend, since two years old, Eli Zambrano, who became a teacher and a school counselor and continues to be kind of this daily contact.
I have so many friends that do that, but both of them are educators who I've known almost my entire life. My sister, it has been my entire life, and they just exude goodness, and they see me for who I am. I love them for it. I'm grateful for them.
Lainie Rowell: Lovely shoutouts. I appreciate that. And now, after hearing this episode, I know people are going to want to reach out to you. What is the best way to connect with you, Kevin?
Kevin Brown: So my email is kbrown@tasanet. org. I'm not a great social media guy, but it's @KBrownTASA I believe is my Twitter.
And those are probably the easiest ways to get in touch with me. And then through my website. Everybody in the world has my cell phone, but I probably won't maybe get that out on the podcast. But if people reach out to me through those means, I can always share my, my mobile number with them and, and follow up.
Lainie Rowell: That's very generous to be so accessible, and I will make sure that all of that's in the show notes. Save the cell phone number. We'll make that a step two after people reach out to you, right? You always have to be careful with the cell phone.
How many times can we get asked if we want to extend our car warranty? And so we'll just keep it to the email for now.
Kevin, . I have just cherish this time with you, and thank you for being so generous with your time. I know people are going to want to connect to you and I can't wait to see what comes of that.
So thank you again for your time.
Kevin Brown: Thanks so much, Lainie. I really appreciate it. And I've enjoyed this time a great deal. Thanks for the work that you do and making a difference in the lives of countless people who you probably don't even know how far your impact goes. But I know it goes wide and far.
Lainie Rowell: I appreciate that. We never know our impact. We hope those are some strong ripples, right? Thank you all for listening.